I'm cracking up

[FishWick 21]

Well, here's a good example of why I try and stress the importance of not cutting corners with turbo projects.

This is an SPA turbo manifold, allegedly. It's the second one I've had and it has cracked in exactly the same place as the first one. Not only that, the port alignment is shoddy as hell, on both. This one was sent off to a cast iron specialist for modification before fitting and guess what the nickel content is? Zero.

It's a shame because of all the VRT manifolds I've seen, this one is the best design in my opinion, but the quality is apalling. Please do not use!

The suppliers of these manifolds in the UK plead ignorance, but they're clearly cheap knock offs of the original, proper part. Avoid!

Now I am forced to go down the ATP manifold route at great expense :-(

[Lizard Racing 0]

Thats not so good Kev! Looks like you spotted it early though and no turbo damage I hope.

[FishWick 21]

It's been like that for some time as I've heard an exhaust leak when cold for ages now. Finally plucked up the courage this morning to lift the heat shield and confirm.....and.....Bugger :-(

No turbo damage, the GT35R is strong as an Ox :-)

The crack closes up a bit when hot and is drivable, but it causes the lambda probe some grief.

Now that it's settled, it could be drilled either side of the crack and welded, but I just don't trust it. Having no nickel means it will just crack again somewhere else.

Oh well, more cash wasted :-(

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

Has that manifold been modified around the wastegate area Kev?

[FishWick 21]

No, it's as supplied.

I asked the iron specialists to correct the ports and skim the mating faces. Also, if you look at the pic where the studs/washers are, those manifold surfaces needed cutting flat aswell because the first manifold kept pulling the studs out of the head because it wasn't flat.

Their process didn't affect the manifold. They use a special technique of fusion welding, by making up rods of the exact same material as the manifold, which is how it came to light it is just pure cast iron and a cheap grade of iron at that.

Where the crack is, I would say is the main concentration of turbo weight. I don't think the manifold can handle it, well, not this particular one, or the one before it at least.

It's just the whole ground off branding, cloak and dagger thing that frustrates me. I'm pretty sure SPA wouldn't want their name muddied by this, so I'd love to know what the situation is with these manifolds.

Cracking once is unlucky, twice in the same place is too suspicious to ignore I'm afraid.

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

I'm talking to the sales man at SPA right now., since we use their manifold

He says that the manifolds they sell have nickel content.

I can see where the manifold has been machined, but where was the fusion welding needed?

[FishWick 21]

The welding was required in the ports themselves because they were so out of line with the head. 3 of the ports need fillet welding, then ground back to correctly shape and align the ports. That needed doing because I also had gasket blow by issues.

Here's a pic of my first one, just dug it out of the shed. That amount of rust is definitely a sign of a very low nickel content, if any at all. But the same crack is present and I think I know why they cracked now. The casting is very thin at that point.

If SPA can offer me some assurance a replacement won't go the same way and that the ports are shaped properly, I would definitely prefer to keep using it as i don't want the hassle of redoing the exhaust and boost pipes.

[FishWick 21]

By the way, I'm not on some kind of hate campaign or finger pointing mission. These manifolds have wasted a lot of my time and money and I just want to get to the bottom of it.

A few other friends of mine who have also done / doing VRT conversions have discovered the same faults as me, so I'm not alone.

These pictures will hopefully better explain the port alignment issues. The gasket clearly wasn't being compressed enough on 3 cylinders.

If this is a genuine issue SPA aren't aware of, then this is an oppurtunity for them to correct it.

And my instruction to the fusion welders.

[jims13 6]

ah man, thats hard luck, it was only last week you were showing me the other one..i cant beleive after what we talked about, this happened.. i do have two turbo support brackets which you are welcome two if you want/need them for the spa/spa copy manifold. as we discovered yours and mine are the same, just mine being in stainless.

i hope you get this sorted..

[jims13 6]

just had another look at that crack, its a good thing you caught it when you did, its almost all the way across :!

[david_h 0]

This is not good, I'm dreading mine doing this now, that's the last thing I need after all the expense I've had to deal with this VRT.

Be interested to see what SPA have to say, I noticed port alignment on mine is shocking as well, and was also concerned with how easily it rusted.

[Kelster 0]

I assume by those supplying pleading ignorance you mean a certain vw modifier that sells that manifold on ebay ? If so then I think I will take my friends offer up and let him make me one.

[FishWick 21]

Cheers Jim! I'll let you know if I need the support brackets. With all that weight hanging off the manifold, plus the manifold itself, I think that is the strategy I will be taking with the next manifold!

I don't want to go ATP unless I have to, I'll keep you posted.....

[FishWick 21]

Yeah, including me, I am aware of 5 manifolds like this, although the cracks seem to vary in severity.

There's no stress relieving in this manifold. The sections between the 3 pairs of runners should have sections removed to allow for iron expansion.

By "pleading ignorance", it's not a certain supplier on ebay, just through an associate shall we say.

I feel a bit like an isolated case because most people say theirs is fine, so poses questions about SPA's manufacturing consistency. They could even be factory rejects, why else would the brand name be ground off?

ATP don't grind their logo off when selling their kits domestically, or over seas. It's a tad suspicious, but I shouldn't really speculate on a forum as it only gets people's backs up.

[CorradoVR6-n.o.s 0]

what happend to that stainless manifold you had made up Kev? the one that resembled the spa one..

[Radostormvr6 2]

Kev , don't know why your bothering with the SPA, just buy the ATP one. Take it to JKM get them to fab the down pipe and 3'' system. Job done

[CorradoVR6-n.o.s 0]

and how much was that shaun...?

[FishWick 21]

ATP mani on it's way over from Bill, plus a few other bits.

Going the same way as you Shaun. Can you forward me pictures of your brake fluid resevoir setup please mate, and also some pics in general of the engine bay and downpipe. Cheers chap.

Bill said he's never seen a cracked ATP, not even on his 800whp engines. The SPA is well known to crack in the states aswell apparently, and not just the one they do for the VR6.

[FishWick 21]

what happend to that stainless manifold you had made up Kev? the one that resembled the spa one..

The one prototype made had several manufacturing problems so it was abandoned :-(

[kadvr6 0]

what about the pagparts manifold Kev

http://search.orange.co.uk/redirect?ug=-1&uu=0000011c244f0555a3e1c66782a051a7&brand=ouk&sv=web&p=searchbox&pt=tab&q=pagparts+turbo+manifold&pge=1&src=google_standard&pos=1&id=0&sp=7FsbBY97KTWcf5gWlX%2FWTg%3D%3D&d=www.pagparts.com&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pagparts.com%2Fperfpts1.asp%3Fpprd%3Dgtturbomanifold%26mfrid%3D235

[FishWick 21]

Cheers Karl. Same price as the ATP and almost identical :-)

[VR6BOY 2]

ATP all the way Kev

[kadvr6 0]

here's a nice manifold Kev http://cgi.ebay.de/VR6-TURBO-FACHER-KRUMMER-VR6-TURBO-EXHAUST-VW_W0QQitemZ220022062289QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220022062289&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 shame about the price though have you contacted OBX about there stainless tubular manifolds??

[Phat VR6 3]

Kev do you fab the downpipes up yourself? That last link to a manifold looks the bollocks tbf