Speed School

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

Anyone else been? found it beneficial?

Apart from not getting 3 points and an insurance premium hike it was possibly the most pointless and boring three hours of my life!!!!!

[goonersteve 0]

Not been to one myself. Don't they show you gruesome pictures of accidents caused by speeding and stuff like that? That's what i've heard. Would of thought that may have an affect on some people, in terms of adjusting their driving habits.

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

nope didnt see anything gruesome, saw a re-construction of some pillock pedestrian stepping out in front of a car from between two cars, the driver was doing 39 in a 30.

Now i dont care if he was doing 700mph the fact the guy was stupid enough to not look for a vehicle it doesnt matter if it was 30 or 39mph, its still gunna fooking hurt and its still a retarded thing to do.

The driver IMHO should of had the book thrown at him for speeding, but he got done for death by careless driving?

I know its controversil but i disagree with this,

As a young child you learn that putting your finger into a naked flame ends up with a heap laod of pain, so you dont do it again.

As an adult common sense should prevail and you would think not to step in front of on-coming traffic

Speed of the driver is irrelevant in the injury and outcome of the pedestrian, its only relevant as to what he actually did wrong!!!

as you can tell this pissed me off some what!!!

If a loved one of mine was killed by a speeding driver i would being the thinking man i am i would assess what part of the drivers speeding killed them, did my loved one aimlessly run out and catch the driver by surprise giving him no chance at all? if yes then i wouldnt judge the driver for the life lost but only against the speed lawas he broke,

If its a no and the driver was for example speeding and looking at his phone and my loved one crossed the road in a safe manner, then i would judge the driver for speeding recklessly and would blame it all solely on them

RANT OVER lol

[Nex 17]

agreed!

[VR6Nat 9]

thats just one simple example of how speed can kill though... there are a lot of other ways too... and the fact is there is a time and place for having a play... in my eyes a 30mph limit is there for a reason... and even if someone did step into the road, the point is at 30 they would live, at 39 they prob wouldnt. i dont think drivers get enough harsh treatment when it comes to killing people on the roads.

I know of a lad that got a year and a half in prison for killing 3 friends in a car and a mother and her two kids in an oncoming car cuz he overtook on a blind bend.... tell me thats fair?

there is arguements for and against everything mate... its not quite all black and white....

[craggsy 91]

But did you get a copy of the highway code as well?

I did when I did the course after doing 34 in a 30. Was quite informative......they asked if anyone had any other driving experience as well...I said yes i do track days and have ben taught how to drive quickly and safely.....it took the smile off his face then!

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

^ i have to agree but also disagree

There is an argument for everything, but theya re all black and white.

Lets say that lad as you ahve told us was overtaking stupidly and speeding on a blind bend, had a head on crash and killed them, and got done.....fine, i agree 100%

Lets say he is approaching the corner at 9 miles over the limit, and as he rounds the corner comes across a cyclist with no hi-viz, no lights, and quite a distance from the kerb, wether within the speed limits or not he will probably have to swerve onto the opposite side of the road, having a ehad on crash, killing the other people,

because of a cyclist not obeying the highway code should he be prosecuted just because he was a few miles over the limit???

I will agree that not every situation is black and white because of the extent of variables such as road conditions, but each outcome is black and white,

Was the driver speeding recklessly?

if yes, throw the book at him

Was the driver speeding but placed in a careless situation by and reckless road going user?

If yes, i will whole heartedly stand behind im, except for speeding, any further consequences through the actions of the stupidity of others should ahve no bearing on the driver involved or his speed

^^unless its ridiculously high speed.

Further to the Argument i speed everytime i get in the car, have i ever had a crash as a result? No, any close shaves? none at all.

I know i am speeding, and sometimes very speeding, for that reason, i pay such attention to every detail, people around me, road conditions, road camber even!!!

and yet when i go out to potter to the shops i loose all concentration and consequently have written off 2 or 3 cars, and various other shunts.

Im in a sense safer speeding, i cant remember the last time i checked my mirrors when pottering about?? when im speeding they get checked ALOT.

at the end of the day my responsibilty is the safety of others around me, i would never let my speed affect them at all, and will do 100% to avoid it.

I manage my speeding appropriately, which when explained to the course provider last night he shook my hand and said

"i cannot condone your speeding, but your forthought of it, and how u conduct it i cannot do anything but commend, i wish you many years of SAFE speeding"

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

Sorry for gospel and verse

[VR6Nat 9]

their point is that if you hit a person in the road at 30 they have an 80% chance of living, if you hit them nearer to 40 they have an 80% chance of dying...

we've all seen the adverts.... so what they mean is that if the guy wasnt speeding the person might have lived.... so it was the more than likely the speed that killed them.

Anyway james, most of us speed, and in the 7 years of driving every day, i also speed and also have never had a single crash, but a 30 has many valid reasons for being so... so thats the one to take notice of... the rest i judge to where the road is and whats along it.

All i know is if a kid runs after a ball unto the road and died cuz i was doin 40 and i knew if i was doin 30 he would have lived then i would want to be banged up and pay for it...

but your point also makes sense, i can see it from both sides, just trying to make you do the same....

[thegoth 5]

if there's a number on the sign I stick to it religiously. But after 25 years of driving you'd think I'd remember what the national speed limits is ;-)

Looking in your mirror lots when speeding smacks of looking out for the rozzers more than other road users, otherwise it would be second nature and done at all speeds.

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

if there's a number on the sign I stick to it religiously. But after 25 years of driving you'd think I'd remember what the national speed limits is ;-)

Looking in your mirror lots when speeding smacks of looking out for the rozzers more than other road users' date=' otherwise it would be second nature and done at all speeds.

[/quote']

I understand what you mean about the mirrors, and yes it is for the rozzers but primarily its because its what i was taught, i have no excuse for not using them when pottering other than sheer lazyness

And Nat yes i agree, and i have taken in what you say, please dont think i am a one view one sided person, i understand all of it. jsut putting how i conduct myself across to differ myself from the chav in a saxo speeding through a housing estate with kids to myself caning the crap out of it when appropriate on a B road, if that makes sense??

[goonersteve 0]

I can understand what you're saying James. But i think Nat is spot on about the 30mph speed limits being there for good reason. I'm the same as her, in that i like to put my foot down and enjoy driving the car as it should be driven when safe to do so, but never speed in a 30. You can be as safe a driver as they come, but you just don't know what other road users or pedestrians are going to do (e.g. kids running out after a ball).

I know what you mean about the young chav driver thing though. Don't think anyone wants to be labelled in the same group as them!

[The Monk 50]

If you hit me at 30 theres an 80 percent chance I'll live.

If you hit me at 40 theres an 80 percent chance I'll die.

IF I KNEW HOW TO CROSS A ROAD, WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS SITUATION!!!!!!

[jesterwalker69 0]

What Nat and Steve say.

10, 20, 30 and even 40 i stick to religiously. Mainly coz they're more than likely there due to the area being relatively built up = more chance of pedestrians, especially kids and i could not live with myself if i hit and killed a child.

I have to agree with both points on whose generally to blame. If someone steps out and your doing the speed limit or driving to the conditions (which ever is slowest at the time) and stopping in time is impossible then yes - it is the pedestrians fault for not abiding by the Highway Code!

But ANY deviation from this and it immediately becomes the fault of the driver. Even at 1mph he/she is still breaking the speed limit and therefore breaking the law, therefore in the wrong!

Or going by your example James, overtaking on a blind bend and colliding with a cyclist with no hi-viz on etc or swerving and hitting another car. No matter what speed the driver is doing is it still not the drivers fault for overtaking in an inappropriate place??

Even if the driver wasn't speeding at the time, its the immediate sense of urgency (something that probably makes him/her speed other times) that made them decide to overtake at such a ridiculous place. Therefore i guess these courses aren't there JUST to stop you speeding but to do as it says on the tin and make you AWARE of your speed. Encompassing reducing your overall sense of urgency on the road.

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

Pretty good debate this

I understand everything everyone has said, and as i say i see both sides of the argument.

the way i conduct myself is,

30mph limit, narrow road, cars lining the road, could be kids about, weather conditions etc, i WILL ALWAYS stick to the limit and if i deem necessary below the limit

on the other hand

30mph limit, house/buildings set back a decent distance from the road, no cars lining the road, no public visibly by the road, no visual obstructions, then i will do more than 30mph because i deem it so, the time it would take a person to get in froont of my vehicle from the outer reaches of the road is such that i would have ample time to stop.

^^ i then evaluate how much i am going to speed by the road conditions, camber, visibility, undulation, eg, dry, middle of the day, very clear, no traffic etc, ill probably hit 40mph-45mph, ont he flip side if its wets, low visibility then 35mph-40mph

This is what i mean about the difference between myself and a reckless speeder, i evaluate my actions 200% to ensure my own and others safety, if i deem it safe to speed i will, if i dont then i wont?

The 30mph limit i was pinged in at 38mph i reguarly do 60mph through. irrisponsible by most drivers, but i evaluate when it is safe to do so,

Hosues are set back 20 meters, its level and flat with very good distance of view, there is on junction on the side of the road i was travelling which you can see over a 100 meteres away and at least 30 meters into the junction etc etc etc.

If im doing 60mph in this limit and i see a car at the junction, i will naturally slow down to be safe, saying that i always slow past this junction jsut incase the inevitable happens and some idiot speeds up to it and pulls out

Each to there own though, i am taking on board what you say

[The Monk 50]

Pretty good debate this

I understand everything everyone has said' date=' and as i say i see both sides of the argument.

the way i conduct myself is,

30mph limit, narrow road, cars lining the road, could be kids about, weather conditions etc, i WILL ALWAYS stick to the limit and if i deem necessary below the limit

on the other hand

30mph limit, house/buildings set back a decent distance from the road, no cars lining the road, no public visibly by the road, no visual obstructions, then i will do more than 30mph because i deem it so, the time it would take a person to get in froont of my vehicle from the outer reaches of the road is such that i would have ample time to stop.

^^ i then evaluate how much i am going to speed by the road conditions, camber, visibility, undulation, eg, dry, middle of the day, very clear, no traffic etc, ill probably hit 40mph-45mph, ont he flip side if its wets, low visibility then 35mph-40mph

This is what i mean about the difference between myself and a reckless speeder, i evaluate my actions 200% to ensure my own and others safety, if i deem it safe to speed i will, if i dont then i wont?

The 30mph limit i was pinged in at 38mph i reguarly do 60mph through. irrisponsible by most drivers, but i evaluate when it is safe to do so,

Hosues are set back 20 meters, its level and flat with very good distance of view, there is on junction on the side of the road i was travelling which you can see over a 100 meteres away and at least 30 meters into the junction etc etc etc.

If im doing 60mph in this limit and i see a car at the junction, i will naturally slow down to be safe,[b'] saying that i always slow past this junction jsut incase the inevitable happens and some idiot speeds up to it and pulls out

Each to there own though, i am taking on board what you say

Happens a lot to me. A few months after sorting my car out, some gimp did that as I was just starting to go past the junction at 50 n a 50 zone but he pulled out and as some drivers like to think that they are forever in the right, he slammed his brakes on while mine were locked with an oncoming vehicle opposite.....he braked because he thought I was just trying to sit up his backside.......BI HIG MISTAKE.....BANG. He claimed I was in the wrong as I'd hit the back of him, police told him what he didn't want to hear though.

Anyway, my mums just recieved a letter throuh the post claiming that she was doing 34 in a 30 zone....on a sunny day, dry, warm, no cars, no peds........ extremely stupid on their part.

HOWEVER, at the end of the day, if you speed over the limit, the consiquences are your own fault, no matter what...... unless another drivr causes a crash....then you're both wrong. Simple.

[thegoth 5]

James has touched on a good point there. It's 30 for a reason, ie survivability, but the application can be somewhat arrbitary as local councils don't actually stick to any regulations when introducing limits. Leading to 'unrealistic' limits which drivers are much less likely to stick to.

[jesterwalker69 0]

James has touched on a good point there. It's 30 for a reason' date=' ie survivability, but the application can be somewhat arrbitary as local councils don't actually stick to any regulations when introducing limits. Leading to 'unrealistic' limits which drivers are much less likely to stick to.

[/quote']

Agreed

[Jamesr_VR6 0]

took me a while but i often ahve difficulties explaining my actions lol

[CALICO 130]

hence you had to go on a driving awareness course lol

[bungy 2]

Love all the input and this will always be a highly debated subject. A speed limit is exactly that and not a target. By that I mean the speed limit should be the utmost maximum in perfect conditions, otherwise something less is required pending drivers judgement. We all like the sensation of speed and so if more is deemed usable and modern cars do have better handling/tyres/brakes then we all need to change things with our ability to vote. If we do nothing then speed tolerance is now at an all time low with consequences rising to match. Without sounding 2 faced or self righteous, I love speed but there is a time and a place.

[Bigjobbo 0]

A debate it is, and i'l have my say next please Madam speaker

Doing 60 in a 30 is a complete disregard for anybody else. What if you were to get a blow out on this 30 road, at 60, hit the kerb, roll it...at say 50mph, it will take you about 1 second to cover the 20 meters to the houses, and you end up in someones front garden. The entire accident over inside 5 seconds. What qualifications do you have that suggest you could react? They are called accidents beause we don't intend them to happen, and we are unable to predict them. Most happen faster than we are able to react.

" It will never happen to me, i'm too careful, too vigilant, i have 20/20 vision, i used to drive for the police, i do track days, i know how to drive fast, safely, i know this road like the back of my hand, i'm an advanced driver, my last name is Button" all complete bull when my child steps in front of your car, or worse still, you mount a pavement.

Speed limits save lives. Simple.

I have 2 young children, and it cuts like a knife to read of people flaunting a 30 speed limit like an inconvienience.

[CALICO 130]

A debate it is so please keep it clean there are other buttons on your keyboard you could use instead of expletives Thanks Children can read as well

[warby 0]

I agree to the point made about sticking to limits regardless, but im lucky we have genuine zero speed limit roads so i save meself for these, my mate has a habit of 40 or more in a 30, lucky sod dont get caught tho. So 30 / 40 / 50 when needs be an i dont stray above either(it annoys passengers, then whatever takes me fancy when i see the white circle with a diagonal line:-d

The reason i have this view is i see countless bike fans die every year when trying to race around the TT course when its clearly a normal road with limits, blind corners, tractors, sheep and some very chuffin rough bits too...

[The Monk 50]

Again with the children...teach them to cross a road safely and there is rarely if at all, an issue.