Turbo help - PARTS LIST HELP

[kcw 1]

Awite I'm about to pick up a turbo as Friday was payday but I'm unsure what to go for. I originally wanted a GT3071R but I'm unsure of what specs I should be selecting before buying. I'm wanting a turbo that'll spool says 3.5k-4k rpm but pull hard to the redline, I dont mind a bit of lag.

Options for the 3071R are

Turbine

-Wheel: 60mm w/ 84 trim

-Housing: .63 ar, .82 ar, 1.06 ar

Compressor

-Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 trim

-Housing: .50 ar

(info taken from ATPturbo.com)

Was also looking on the Schimmel Website and they stock a Garrett t60-1 turbo, which is a Journal Bearing turbo as opposed to the 30s Dual Ball bearing, how noticable is the difference in the 2 turbos as the T60 is half the price.

Hope you can help

Ken

[CorradoVR6-n.o.s 0]

that GT30 will spool up allot sooner than that...ask stormcharged on here.

I would go for the GT35R with the .82 ex housing,ive used this and its one hell of a turbo,Kev on here also uses that.

If you can afford it go for the BB type.

[VR6Will 0]

i have a gt3076r with .82 exhaust housing.

i would go for a gt35r with a 1.06 exhuats housing

[Radostormvr6 2]

You want GT3076R with .82 housing , i don't feel any lag , spools up before 3k rpm.

Im running 1 bar of boost and making 400 bhp , its making 380lbft at 3.5k rpm . it pull hard to about 6k rpm

Good for 500bhp.

GT35 will have bit of lag but will spool 4k rpm to 7k rpm may be more. Good for 600bhp

[CorradoVR6-n.o.s 0]

the 35r will spool around 3500 and be fully spooled by 3800 and still pull that hard untill your valves bounce off the pistons lol!

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

1.06 GT35R on a 2.9 12v VR6:

Well into making positive pressure @ 2500rpm

WELL into hard spool up @ 3800rpm

Makes 1.2 bar @ 4200rom

In comparson 0.82 GT35R makes 1.2bar @ 3700 on the same engine.

The 1.06 has a much wider spread of airflow over the RPM range, where as the 0.82 restricts exhaust gas flow at higher revs.

It's all down to personal choice really,

[kcw 1]

Cheers guys, I think the GT35 is a little big for what I'm after, the car's driven daily and is staying a 2.8, will also only be on a spacer so dont wanna over stress the engine.

I think I'll go down the 3076r route, would it be worth while getting the 1.06 housing and having it pull right to the redline? what the standard rev limit anyway 6.8k?

Ken

C2 PM'd.

[CorradoVR6-n.o.s 0]

if you going to run c2 they up the rev limit by 500rpm.

My GT35R with the .82 housing will pull like a muth to red line,the one at the mo with 1.02 is to laggy for the VR.

But as sadi above is personal choise.

[FishWick 21]

I've tried the 3071R, 3076R and 35R, all with 0.82 housings and if you want the behaviour to be as per your first post, I'd go with the GT35R, with 0.82.

The T60-1 is a good budget alternative though. Slightly laggier than a 35R, but similar flow characterisitcs.

[MaidenVR6 26]

Why not try a GT30 A/R 1.06?

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

Why not try a GT30 A/R 1.06?

A VERY good turbo if you not after more than low 400's.

[kcw 1]

Why not try a GT30 A/R 1.06?

A VERY good turbo if you not after more than low 400's.

Well I'm not after anything more than 400, considerably less than that till I get used to the car with almost double the power than when I bought it.

[kcw 1]

Awrite guys I've been trying to comprise a list of parts to I have some idea on how much money I have to spend, I've got a total mental block right now, here's what I'v got so far, can you add on other things I need/things I dont need . . .

Ken

Turbo

Wastegate

BOV

Spacer

ARP Rod Bolts

ARP Head Bolts

Intercooler

Clutch

MAF & Software

440cc Boschs

Fuel Pump

4BAR FPR

3" DP & Exhaust

Thanks in advance

[sharky_70 0]

stock fpr should be fine if using C2

manifold, spark plugs, sump with oil return

wideband?

[kcw 1]

Already have a manifold, which plugs you recommend? Can just weld a drain onto the standard sump.

[sharky_70 0]

been recommended NGK BKR7E from sparkplugs.co.uk but peoples opinions vary

[Phat VR6 3]

BOV aren't suitable for C2 software dude.. you need to vent back into the inlet for the software to work properly

You could just buy these parts

Manni

turbo

Down pipe and exhaust

DV

waste gate

begi rfpr

and run at 6-8 psi on a totally standard engine like they do with superchargers.. This is becoming really temping for me as would cost around £1100 for all brand new parts would see around 260-280 bhp and you can always upgrade later (cheaper than a charger )

Just an idea if like me you haven't got a money tree

[supadupagt4 0]

and run at 6-8 psi on a totally standard engine like they do with superchargers.. This is becoming really temping for me as would cost around £1100 for all brand new parts would see around 260-280 bhp and you can always upgrade later (cheaper than a charger )

Is this totally safe? tried and tested? whats the longevity of this setup?

tony

[Phat VR6 3]

people that run superchargers run stage 1 6 psi on stock engines some even more without any problems so im my eyes this means that 6psi and 260bhp on a standard VR6 engine is tried and tested and known to be safe

I can't see why 260bhp 6 psi coming from a turbo is any different, A few people have run this set up but most are after more than 260bhp and tend to build there turbo motors up to stand high power levels so i guess thats why many havn't been seen around

The mannis tryed and tested

Turbos a top brand make (could get a cheep ebay one and make it even cheeper)

That £1100 is with making your own exhaust and only ruff and waiting for good exchange rate from the USA... But you get the idea that its not silly money and can be brought in bits

[sharky_70 0]

yeah the basic US kits are pretty much like that with the addition of a basic EPROM

[FishWick 21]

Yes the BEGI route works well. It's how I did my first turbo engine, as per my DIY guide.

You'll need a MAF clamp and I recommend the one from Split Second tuning.

You will also need a good fuel pump, and I recommend the Cosworth spec Walbro (Marketed by Sytec) that Stealth sell as it comes with the necessary fitting rings. This particular pump sits in the stock position, so doesn't run dry at < 1/4 tank. Good for 500 crank power.

I used a Forge Twin piston dump valve and didn't seem to cause any problems, but a recirc is better where MAFs are concerned.

The other way to do it is with a 10K resistor in line with the MAF output wire + 359cc Bosch red tops (aka Saab turbo injectors). You won't need the Begi, just a standard FPR.

Worth noting is neither method looks after timing on boost, you're reliant on the knock sensors pulling it back. How far the knock sensors pull back depends on how good your intercooler is and the fuel quality.

With my Schimmel intercooler and the stock ECU + Begi route I wasn't get any timing pull @ 8psi.

The stock timing per rpm at 3/4 to full load is:-

3200 rpm - 29.25 deg

3600 rpm - 26.25

4200 rpm - 24

4800 rpm - 22.5

5400 rpm - 21.75

6000 rpm - 27

6600 rpm - 27.75

So you need to be careful at 3200rpm where most turbos are on song. 22 deg is a normal safe timing level at that rpm at full boost, so the ECU will pull 7 deg out if it needs to. I would replace any old and crusty knock sensors first with new ones correctly torqued and then response time will be maximised.

It's not as bad a method as some people make out.

So long as you understand what's going on and the limitations, it will work.

[kcw 1]

Is the above method if you wernt gonna use C2?

The extra hardware to run more safe boost (spacer rod and head bolts) is only gonna cost you $500 - $550 and isnt gonna take much longer to install, you'd probably wanna get the head off anyway and make sure there's nothing wrong, I know I do.

[Phat VR6 3]

Yes the BEGI route works well. It's how I did my first turbo engine' date=' as per my DIY guide.

You'll need a MAF clamp and I recommend the one from Split Second tuning.

You will also need a good fuel pump, and I recommend the Cosworth spec Walbro (Marketed by Sytec) that Stealth sell as it comes with the necessary fitting rings. This particular pump sits in the stock position, so doesn't run dry at < 1/4 tank. Good for 500 crank power.

I used a Forge Twin piston dump valve and didn't seem to cause any problems, but a recirc is better where MAFs are concerned.

The other way to do it is with a 10K resistor in line with the MAF output wire + 359cc Bosch red tops (aka Saab turbo injectors). You won't need the Begi, just a standard FPR.

Worth noting is neither method looks after timing on boost, you're reliant on the knock sensors pulling it back. How far the knock sensors pull back depends on how good your intercooler is and the fuel quality.

With my Schimmel intercooler and the stock ECU + Begi route I wasn't get any timing pull @ 8psi.

The stock timing per rpm at 3/4 to full load is:-

3200 rpm - 29.25 deg

3600 rpm - 26.25

4200 rpm - 24

4800 rpm - 22.5

5400 rpm - 21.75

6000 rpm - 27

6600 rpm - 27.75

So you need to be careful at 3200rpm where most turbos are on song. 22 deg is a normal safe timing level at that rpm at full boost, so the ECU will pull 7 deg out if it needs to. I would replace any old and crusty knock sensors first with new ones correctly torqued and then response time will be maximised.

It's not as bad a method as some people make out.

So long as you understand what's going on and the limitations, it will work.

[/quote']

Kev your a legend, Care to go a little deeper into the timing? Is that 29.25 btdc? This seems crazy to me as most dizzy type cars are set at 6-8 deg btdc.... 29 btdc and your giving a spark WAY before the pistons got to the top of its stroke, think im getting confused somewhere down the line

How much worse is the timing pull going to be with stock compression and no intercooler?

And is that how you map your ignition map by looking on vag.com when timings getting pulled and adjust to suit?

cheers for the help

kcw i know where your coming from and your right its not much more money for the added safety but when you think like that prices seem to build up quickly lol... I could have some standard head bolts for sale now . You don't have to worry about the above when going C2 as its all taken care of by there map

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

Kev your a legend' date=' Care to go a little deeper into the timing? Is that 29.25 btdc? This seems crazy to me as most dizzy type cars are set at 6-8 deg btdc.... 29 btdc and your giving a spark WAY before the pistons got to the top of its stroke, think im getting confused somewhere down the line.

[/quote']

I think your getting confused here a little. it is 29 degrees before top dead centre. Ignition timing is fired before the piston gets to TDC to make maximum cylinder pressure at the right point durin the stroke. The point at which the ignition is fired to gain this maximum pressure depends on a lot of things, including flame speed and piston velocity.

How much worse is the timing pull going to be with stock compression and no intercooler?

Timing pull with no intercooler and stock compression when using software designed to be used with an intercooler and lowered compression will be massive. Even when using standard software the timing pull is something cronic

[FishWick 21]

Kev your a legend' date=' Care to go a little deeper into the timing? Is that 29.25 btdc? This seems crazy to me as most dizzy type cars are set at 6-8 deg btdc.... 29 btdc and your giving a spark WAY before the pistons got to the top of its stroke, think im getting confused somewhere down the line [/quote']

LOL, I'm not, but cheers anyway :-)

All ignition advance is BTDC mate. You're firing the plugs in "advance" of the piston reaching TDC, aka "Before TDC" :-) The faster the piston speed, the earlier you have to fire the coils in order to "keep up". That's why you have low advance numbers at idle, and bigger ones at higher revs. Sorry if you knew that already, LOL! The confusion you have with a dizzy is it's static idle timing. Don't forget dizzys have vacuum and centrifugal advance. Centrifugal bob weights increase timing with rpm, and the vacuum actuator pulls it back again as load increases. Lovely and simple......

How much worse is the timing pull going to be with stock compression and no intercooler?

As already mentioned' date=' with stock compression and timing, the retarding will be big. I forgot to say that with my BEGI fuelling method, I was using an 8.5:1 head spacer.

I have in the past run 12psi with my Vortech charger on stock compression with a short intake and water injection, but that was remapped to suit. Knock regulation was still pretty busy though.

And is that how you map your ignition map by looking on vag.com when timings getting pulled and adjust to suit?

A proper timing map should be done on a load adjustable dyno. The aim is to use the advance numbers which produce peak torque when making power. Timing on no load + part throttle areas is fairly arbitary and not as critical, except at high cruising speeds where you want good amounts of timing to help keep EGTs low. High advance off idle is an area to watch if you don't want a hair trigger response pulling out of junctions etc. And lastly, low rpm + high engine load (I.e foot flat down in 4th at 25mph) timing should be sensible to avoid detonation. It's no use cramming in tonnes of advance where the engine isn't making any power....and fuel for that matter