Turbo help - PARTS LIST HELP

[Phat VR6 3]

Ah right I see lol, I new about the spark as the pistons coming up so as the bang is ignited its compressed and makes a bigger bang and all that shizzel, and about the vac advance but just didn't know that it went as far as 29 btdc.

Right next questions :-d

Does it even matter if its pulling lots of timing? Run an engine lean and it melts pistons ect... What happens to your engine if your getting lots of advance? Is it really bad for it?

Or is it a case that as long as your knock sencers can keep up your ok but if there falling behind then you will loose power and start damaging things? In fact wtf is knock exactly? when the fuel air is getting ignited to late at say 20 deg btdc when it should be ignited earlier at 23 deg (just example)

How do the yanks get away with it, im sure ive read about some of them running quite high boost pressures on stock motors with standard inlets and no intercooler, Sometimes i get the feeling they just don't care and just push them to the limit until they brake :S,

C2 do you do a map for stock engine/ no intercooler with standard injectors to run around 6-8 psi? Or could someone like Vince at stealth remap it... suitable reliable way to run this setup at low boost??

Thanks for the help Kev and C2 dude

[FishWick 21]

Yep, too much advance is bad. To make peak torque, you need to fire the coils just after the piston has gone past it's dwell point and starting the down stroke.

But a the same time, you need to retard the ignition for any circumstance where the fuel / air is liable to explode rather than burn, such as high load, low rpm and under boost.

My previous post was quite high level, but setting up ignition advance is not particularly easy. There's a very fine line between peak torque and detonation.

Many race engines don't use knock sensors because they're tuned to run on the edge of knock, which is where peak torque is produced. Rumble kerbs and engine vibrations from solid engine mounts often confuse factory knock sensors, so they're junked and tuned on a dyno instead and in many cases, tuned for a particular track.

Professionals don't need knock sensors. VW fit them as a safety net for common or garden users who tend to mash the throttle down in 5th at 30mph.

Knock is when the fuel explodes, which trys to push the piston back down against the power stroke. It's very hard on all reciprocating parts. In extreme cases it will punch a hole through the piston.

Petrol needs to burn in a controller manner in order to produce power. A combination of timing and the right fuel / air mix achieves this.

The Yanks often dish out some very fat fetched claims. Don't believe everything you read on the net. They have quite poor fuel compared to us and have to run very rich AFRs on boost to compensate. Where they run 11.5 AFR, I run 12.5 and make more power. Too rich robs power, simple as. Fuel burns faster then leaner it is, and the faster it burns, the harder it pushes the piston down....but at the expense of high EGTs.

The Yanks are don't care what comes out the exhaust, so long as it pulls a fast 1/4 time. English tuners have a lot more finesse.

[kcw 1]

Kev you are a hell of a knowledgable guy lol

Wonder if you could help me with this . . . What is the difference in these 2 turbos?

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-039&Category_Code=TBN

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-048&Category_Code=TBN

The first is a "full" T60-1 (T04S) and the Second is a T3/60-1. Also can you point me in the right direction in the way of A/Rs on these two?

Really wanted the GT30 but its too expensive right now unfortunately so will stick to a journal bearing for the time being.

Thankjs again

Ken

[MaidenVR6 26]

Hi.

I used to run a Garrett T04S a/r 63. T3

I have some things to say about that turbo.

1. It did the job on my 12V, BUT the exhaust housing was to small.

2. So go with a A/R82 Turbo. Cause the 63 was all out off air after 5500 rpm. I tought it was a boost leak, but no.

3. The price is very nice

4. From 1 bar to 1.5 bar its SUPER loud.

Louder than full 3" straight exhaust when full boost.

5. I had full boost "1.4bar" at 3200 rpm.

6: Get the a/r 82 :)

7. Dont get the a/r 63, it will destroy your weak 02A aswell. Belive me:) The bottom torque is just unbelivible. Crazy torque from 2800 until it hit the wall at 5500 rpm

8. Great turbo, and great value.

9. When ordering from ATP, remember to get the oil nippels you need, and the gaskets you need.

10. Happy boosting!

[kcw 1]

Thanks for that maiden just what I wanted to hear! ar.82 it is then.

Ken

[FishWick 21]

Yeah, agreed on the 0.82 housing.

The difference between those turbos is mainly packaging mate. Top one is a T4 hot side fitment with V band and the other is a T3 fitment with 4 bolt outlet.

Shame you're not going standalone as I have a brilliant map for a VR6 Turbo with T60-1 :-)

[sharky_70 0]

Maiden - what coldside a/r are you running?

does it make a difference if the outlet is divided? i'll be suing a SPA mani which is undivided

[Phat VR6 3]

Doesn't the twin scroll spool up quicker? .... The T60-1 looks abit bigger?

It sounds like both do the job but which is best for the VR

(kev thanks for the info on knock)

[FishWick 21]

If you're going to use a divided turbo (aka twin scroll), ideally you want the manifold to be divided aswell.

The idea of it is to seperate the turbo's exhaust feed into 2 seperate banks for the strongest possible exhaust pulses and yep, it does indeed improve spool up :-)

There's no easy answer as to which is best because as with all car mods, it depends on user requirements ;-)

[kcw 1]

My manifold isnt divided so I'm prob best sticking with the T3/60-1 with 4 bolt instead of v-band.

What size is the standard 4 bolt housing, Still 3"? Was gonna have a full 3'' system.

If I could afford standalone I'd get it and be straight to you for that map!

Ken

[sharky_70 0]

can you not get an undivided with the v band option? would make life so much simpler

kcw - sounds like we're trying to build the same spec!

[kcw 1]

Great minds eh Sharky lol

ATP site says lists the full T60-1 as being standard T4 inlet with 3'' vband unless another option is selected, dunno if standard T4 is divided or undivided though.

Ken

[sharky_70 0]

i guess it changes when you select the a/r

what mani you got? im using genuine SPA but cant remember off the top of my head if its T3 or T4 flanged

[FishWick 21]

Two ways around that:-

1) Bolt on a 4 bolt to V band adapter

2) Machine a V band flange onto the back housing in place of the 4 bolt flange

[kcw 1]

Yeh can get them for about 60 dollars.

[sharky_70 0]

superb! theyve thought of everything

[Phat VR6 3]

If you're going to use a divided turbo (aka twin scroll)' date=' ideally you want the manifold to be divided aswell.

The idea of it is to seperate the turbo's exhaust feed into 2 seperate banks for the strongest possible exhaust pulses and yep, it does indeed improve spool up :-)

There's no easy answer as to which is best because as with all car mods, it depends on user requirements ;-)

[/quote']

Does it matter which exhaust ports you use. For example could you use the stock exhaust manifold 123 for one side and 456 for the other?

[FishWick 21]

Not sure mate. Would it be best to partition the manifold according to firing order? So 1, 5 & 3 in one partition and 6, 2 & 4 in the other?

I don't know a huge amount about twin scroll strategies tbh! The divided turbo will still work well with a normal manifold, but would work better with a divided manifold. I don't think any cast divided manifolds for VRTs exist?

I've only ever seen one VRT dividied mani and that was a tubular one. 2 banks of 3 were came together at the collector with a divided flange so that 2 lots of 3 pulses fed the two turbine inputs, rather than 6 lots of pulses splitting across the two, if that makes sense?