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Steve bain

turbo thoughts - am i right?

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so first off, sorry for repeating what seems to be discussed a lot on this forum but i wanted to see if what i think is correct is in fact correct or not as i am learning as i go

 

I have a 135k VR6 OBD2 with an a2o gearbox. standard everything which i will be putting into a mk2 scirocco using the epytec 'bolt in' kit and modified driveshafts. I have removed some bits which i don't think i need for my conversion,  SAI, EGR, PCV, AC, PAS and auxilary water pump. I also stripped the wiring and coolant pipes to bare bones.

 

Whilst it is on an engine stand it would seem rude not to fit a turbo. I have to make an exhaust anyway, so i am half way there! ha! The car weighs nothing and is FWD so there isn't much point in it being crazy powerful, but 300-350bhp sounds like a good target. I want to do this on a budget of sorts with the intention of expanding to 450 - 500bhp in the future.

 

My shopping list.

 

ebay chinese turbo. Copy of the GT3582r with the 0.82A/R - £150

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GT3582-GT35-AR0-70-AR-0-82-Anti-Surge-T3-WATER-Turbo-Turbocharger-Turbolader-5k-/291357246163?hash=item43d63ec2d3:g:~VgAAOSwwpdW8pLV

 

ebay manifold - £95

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turbo-Exhaust-manifold-T3-T4-VW-Golf-3-Corrado-Passat-VR6-T3-T4-Flange-fitting-/182493324102?hash=item2a7d732346:g:5J8AAOSw6EhUR0ho

 

ebay 35mm external wastegate and screamer pipe (to make it easier) - £100 for cheap new or s/h

 

ebay recirculating diverter valve - £30ish

can i use a dump like a bailey?

 

2mm headspacer with metal headgasket (split) and oil feed adaptor - £50 + £30

http://www.retrofication.co.uk/525.html

 

ebay (toyosport) 2.5" FMIC 550x140x65mm - £55

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-TYPE-S-550x140x65MM-2-5-IN-OUT/190659348457?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3D20b7db5ec4d9471bbde2f246b13a3225%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D310204072463

 

intercooler pipework - £100

 

ebay oil line feed with a restrictor into the turbo. Is the return just an oil hose into the sump? - £50ish

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-BRAIDED-UPRATED-T3-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER-OIL-FEED-LINE-ADAPTER-KIT-/161395230812?hash=item2593e7c85c:g:ZlkAAOSwRLZT7Yqc

 

bosch 440cc green Injectors £150 - i have a feeling i can get better ones for less though....

 

TA Technix short intake manifold - £250 - although i may make one as it will be loads cheaper

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TA-TECHNIX-SHORT-TURBO-INLET-MANIFOLD-SUCTION-BRIDGE-ALUGUSS-VW-VR6-2-8-2-9-/272220266444?hash=item3f61979fcc:g:~mwAAOSwB09YE2pU

 

MAF - rs4 one of ebay and swap sensor over - £25

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-RS4-B7-4-2-PETROL-2005-2008-MAF-MASS-AIR-FLOW-SENSOR-METER-AFM-/262236911483?hash=item3d0e89b77b:g:ag0AAOSwaA5WlQ9Y

 

£100 for exhaust tubing

 

£100 for all the clamps, bolt, screws, zipties!

 

rolling road and remap - £300?

 

so thats £1585. What have i missed?

I was thinking about doing arp bolts in the second phase....

 

Thanks for any help

 

 

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If you are putting a spacer plate in there is no point doing arp bolts later. I have a turbo and manifold for sale bought about 8 years ago but sold my vr6. I bought it from a member on here who went for a bigger turbo pics are available if needed.

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58 minutes ago, CALICO said:

If you are putting a spacer plate in there is no point doing arp bolts later. I have a turbo and manifold for sale bought about 8 years ago but sold my vr6. I bought it from a member on here who went for a bigger turbo pics are available if needed.

 

definitely interested.... send me some pics and a price you are looking for.

 

just trying to stop the cost spiraling out of control as it is going to cost a fair bit just to make the engine fit my car....

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Don't skimp on the wastegate, the cheap ones can have problems easily and are often set for high boost, don't get cheap knock off Bosch replica injectors either, same with the recirc valve - if you skimp on the air/fuel parts you're asking for trouble!

 

Also don't bother with RS4 maf unless the tuner says so, there are different ways depending on what they do, so speak to your tuner before you do any air/fuel metering changes to see what parts they use otherwise you'll just be wasting money there as they'll either tell you to change to what they used for their tunes or further work in mapping and it sounds like you're on a budget.

 

Have dealt with many ebay turbo users on the 4 cylinder cars and they tend to hold up well at lower boost (year/6000+ miles), I wouldn't put too much stress on cheap metal though, one bit of impeller going through the engine could destroy everything, so I wouldn't spend too much if doing anything ebay special kind of way but your air and fuel is everything in running!

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3 hours ago, RBPE said:

Don't skimp on the wastegate, the cheap ones can have problems easily and are often set for high boost, don't get cheap knock off Bosch replica injectors either, same with the recirc valve - if you skimp on the air/fuel parts you're asking for trouble!

 

i did see the knock off injectors and considered it for a moment. Would going secondhand but quality be the way to go? i see people use tial a lot. i like the idea of doing it for less than £1k and running about 10psi of boost to keep all the parts under very little stress.

 

We all know what happens though and i will want more!

 

Thanks for the feedback

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It's not really that to be honest - if you get dodgy injectors you could have fitment problems... fuel leak + hot engine = big expense! Linearisation problems over time means more tuning = more expense, one runs lean etc. You get a cheap wastegate and it put's too much boost through your set up and runs lean due to lack of fuel = big expense. Cheap turbo material spinning at tens of thousands of revs snaps off it's wheel and goes through your engine = big expense - that's the reasons people do it properly from the start really!

 

If you're operating on a budget, then don't do too much on your engine first of all as I would be thinking it may be destroyed at any time, so nothing more than a spacer really or I'd usually plan for near a grand for a good refresh and strengthening of the engine. Injectors I wouldn't ever really skimp on to be honest, 2nd hand genuine from reputable seller at worst really, one of them leans out! - and wastegate's are for hot gasses so I would be wise there too as it could have a chain effect in destroying parts.

 

You want to use a proper MAF as well as the cheap ones play up.

So...

I'd personally opt for a Holset HX35 12cm remanufactured for about £450, 38mm Turbosmart wastegate for £250 ish (or 2nd hand ones knock about from time to time) same for a 34mm Kompact recirc is a decent price at £120 ish and bigger than the 25mm ones, together with, (at least) genuine 2nd hand Bosch MAF and injectors (depending on your tuners parts used). 

 

So about a grand for that quality base to build around, then the misc items you mentioned - so £2k budget yet quality kit is easily achievable imo, then the big expense as you up the boost is engine and drive-train!

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I'll stick my 2p in as ive just finished my build.
 

First of all, Nothing wrong with Ebay turbo's so long as they are sent away before installation for a 360 degree thrust bearing upgrade and new seals. This is what stealth do on their kits. You want to be looking for one around the 0.82 A/R mark for street use.

 

Injectors, DO NOT get the cheap ones on ebay/amazon. I had 6 delivered, 2 stuck fully open, 2 didnt fire at all and 1 fired intermittently and only 1 fired as normal. Ended up hydrolocking the engine at idle with fuel. Drained 10L of fuel from the sump. Emerald sell genuine Bosch 440cc injectors suitable for a VR6 at around £60-65 each.

 

Wastegate wise, i am guilty of using a cheap wastegate but that's due to be changed very soon. Heard bad things about them but im about to change the spring so i'll inspect it then. I'd go tial or turbosmart as previously mentioned.

 

Install ARP head and rod bolts when you do the spacer. Use a mk4 gasket, seperate the 3 layers and use copper spray to seal the two outside parts either side of the spacer IIRC.

 

MAF use a 4" housing and a genuine bosch Maf sensor. Dont use anything else if you plan on going for a 440cc chip or remap.

 

You'll need upwards of £3k to do this well. Anything under that expect problems.

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Thanks for all the great advice. I have been looking around and I think I want to run a stage 2 c2 chip so I need a turbo (holset hx 35 is a good shout as seem to fetch £200 s/h) and eBay cast manifold. Genuine Bosch 440cc (which are really expensive!) And a 4inch maf. The link I posted before I read you can use just the housing and my genuine Bosch sensor in it. And then get on the hunt for turbosmart or dial wastegate but most likely A/V and a good quality recirculation valve and decompression plate. 

I will probably make a short intake to keep costs down too. 

 

I think I have a plan so can start buying.

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On 02/04/2017 at 11:20 AM, Steve bain said:

Thanks for all the great advice. I have been looking around and I think I want to run a stage 2 c2 chip so I need a turbo (holset hx 35 is a good shout as seem to fetch £200 s/h) and eBay cast manifold. Genuine Bosch 440cc (which are really expensive!) And a 4inch maf. The link I posted before I read you can use just the housing and my genuine Bosch sensor in it. And then get on the hunt for turbosmart or dial wastegate but most likely A/V and a good quality recirculation valve and decompression plate. 

I will probably make a short intake to keep costs down too. 

 

I think I have a plan so can start buying.

 

£200-250 Holset's are usually just 2nd hand, they can be hit or miss with how good they are, some are in need of a rebuild - budget £450-500 for a remanufactured one already done for you on the bay!

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On 4/4/2017 at 0:00 AM, RBPE said:

 

£200-250 Holset's are usually just 2nd hand, they can be hit or miss with how good they are, some are in need of a rebuild - budget £450-500 for a remanufactured one already done for you on the bay!

 

I think i would be happy buying a secondhand holset hx35 for £200ish knowing it is good quality and taking the risk with the intention of just fitting it, then rebuilding it in the future as funds allow and as needed. I know its better to fit a rebuilt one but i like to learn by making mistakes! 

 

There is one for sale which looks good, what needs to be measured to know if its a 12cm or not as the seller is unsure?

 

also, as i am fitting it into a mk2 scirocco and i can find no information at all (google - you failed me) about fitting a VRT in a mk2 scirocco i am nervous about how close the turbo will be to the raintray with a cast manifold. The same goes with the short intake. The solution is to make a manifold so i can locate the turbo nice and close to the engine and no higher than the original intake so i know it will clear the bonnet. ( i plan to build it out of the car and then fit it over the winter) I was thinking about keeping the 2 short cast manifolds which are on there now and making a 2-1 manifold like the one in the image. I would make it from 1.75" exhaust pipe steel (i can weld steel, but have never tried stainless). where the 2 pipes join and go into the turbo i would make a plenum or sorts with a wastegate outlet so i can run a single wastegate.

 

Intake manifold wise i was thinking of butchering the original intake and welding a length of 75mm aluminium tube to it and then weld the original tb mount to the end of it sort of like the one attached.

 

so bearing in mind i don't want nuts power and i concerned about space which i control by fabricating myself what i have i not considered which will make this a disaster?!

 

also, is there a reason why most have the turbo facing with the intake on the left (facing the engine) or can it go to the right?

 

Thanks in advance, this is more helpful than you probably realise!

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Which way you have the intake is just dictated by how your pipework runs from your Intercooler - which is also something you don't want to skimp on. Can get quality second hand ones pretty cheap usually. As long as all ports can get an even volume of air. 

 

it might be worth leaving the exhaust manifold until you get the car ready to drop it in and see how much space you have. Unless you trust your calculations

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On 02/04/2017 at 11:20 AM, Steve bain said:

Thanks for all the great advice. I have been looking around and I think I want to run a stage 2 c2 chip so I need a turbo (holset hx 35 is a good shout as seem to fetch £200 s/h) and eBay cast manifold. Genuine Bosch 440cc (which are really expensive!) And a 4inch maf. The link I posted before I read you can use just the housing and my genuine Bosch sensor in it. And then get on the hunt for turbosmart or dial wastegate but most likely A/V and a good quality recirculation valve and decompression plate. 

I will probably make a short intake to keep costs down too. 

 

I think I have a plan so can start buying.

I may have a C2 Stage 2 Chip coming for sale soon :)

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On 05/04/2017 at 0:01 PM, Steve bain said:

 

also, as i am fitting it into a mk2 scirocco and i can find no information at all (google - you failed me) about fitting a VRT in a mk2 scirocco i am nervous about how close the turbo will be to the raintray with a cast manifold. The same goes with the short intake. The solution is to make a manifold so i can locate the turbo nice and close to the engine and no higher than the original intake so i know it will clear the bonnet. ( i plan to build it out of the car and then fit it over the winter) I was thinking about keeping the 2 short cast manifolds which are on there now and making a 2-1 manifold like the one in the image. I would make it from 1.75" exhaust pipe steel (i can weld steel, but have never tried stainless). where the 2 pipes join and go into the turbo i would make a plenum or sorts with a wastegate outlet so i can run a single wastegate.

 

A new Wuxi Holset would probably come to £500-550 or so, linked one in the "What turbo" thread is a 12cm too - only a few hundred more for a new Holset, what I would probably go for.

 

You'd be surprised what you can fit in an old Rocco bay;

 

sleeper

 

SAM_2622

 

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