vdubhead

Sounds interesting pete 

Shouldn't do really, although some companies seem to use both, could also depend on any warpage/decking aspects or what comp ratio people are aiming for, for example.

PART 2:
So, once we have an understanding that there is a lot of marketing spiel, a lot of material and QC variances that you should look into to get the best, let's be more specific to VRT tuning!
Common destruction of engines;
I would say, in my experience, that there are two major factors in destroying engines and no matter how many times I tell people, this can also supersede any of the upgraded material specification aspects mentioned previously, it is what ultimately destroys engines the most in my opinion - age!
 
Engines are set up for certain tolerances, certain specifications like measurements, that can obviously change with time due to general wear and tear from the forces placed upon them! I did this little mod on a the wiki VR6 drawing but it simply shows how pressure is placed angularly on certain reciprocal parts...
 

But with other factors to consider!
 
G = Gravity, naturally pushing down on the offset angles of the reihenmotor - our baby's!
 
– in short, you've over 14lbs per square inch pressing down on you at any time, ambient pressure, you times this by the parts moving x amount of times over the course of an engines life, in this case angles against forces and so on..... you get wear and tear that changes the engine from how it was designed to be! Imagine gripping a tennis racket handle for example and someone twists it, you naturally loosen your grip, if you left is as is, the friction would burn you and eventually wear your hand down, same principles apply, often why you hear about lubrication of oil for example on rods, but even then this action over time leads to wear and tear! This is what destroys engines really, forces and use!
 
Quick links;
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_pressure 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_resistance
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_force
 
http://kingbearings.com/files/Geometry_and_Dimensional_Tolerances_of_Engine_Bearings.pdf
 
Therefore, simple rule is – if you're looking to ensure longevity of your engine, do not think it is necessarily good “as is” just because it runs right! I have dealt with many that think that only to find their engine pop when the boost is turned up, usually due to all sorts from blocked oil pick ups to plugs not even being in properly! I will always maintain that the simple refreshing of an engine by an experience builder, will ensure far greater longevity than leaving it as it is and even some "forged engine builds"! If you can't fork out for forged parts, just refresh it all to oem should really help with longevity.
Reason for that again comes down not to the material in this respect on a used engine - as such material can often receive some form of heat treatment in it's usage over it's lifetime, but the tolerance aspects and additional strains it places upon your components if it is not running right and the sheer depth of pressures/shearing forces depending on something like a small measurement difference and angular sheer stress!
 
Which moves us onto the tune.....
I assume most of you know that “a controlled burn” is what you always aim to achieve in terms of ecu tuning, the burning of fuel –  as is required for correct operation. Detonation is an explosion rather than a controlled burn and this explosion, to cut a long story short, means a hell of a lot more stresses!
So the tune is a very, very, important part, personally I have seen many pro tunes with little component protection/knock control but they still work based on what work has actually been done in testing, plus tunes like ASR (anti-slip/traction-control) dumbed down instead of tuned for example, meaning something works but not necessarily as best it should. Point being - most of you don't know what's in a tune, enquire!
So this explosion/knock, can destroy engines no matter how much you upgrade material spec to be honest, but the pressures alone could shear most materials, even hum dinger forged parts with better properties - you're simply protecting as best possible given resources! 
So be aware that tunes.... pretty much anything air/fuel/burn related, is no.1 on the list!
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflagration
 
EDIT - I put this up on the vid section, good example based on fuel v spark/timing/burn etc;
 
So we understand the basics on building if looking at upgrading and/or rebuilding with stock so let's focus on building an engine for FI and saving money!
In short, the more you do for an engine builder, the more you will save yourself at the end of the day!
Taking it out of the car, stripping it down and bagging up/tagging parts is a good start, it'll save you a lot so I would do that first of all to save you some pennies. There's plenty of info on the forum for that.
So you save some money by stripping a lot yourself, and you're now aware that you need to specify that the engine builder needs to look into checking oem angles/tolerances etc and will need new oem parts at least for basics like gaskets, rings, bearings etc. This is when you budget for your forged upgrades or you aim your budget at further oem refreshing!
 
First port of call is the compression ratio then, with stock 6 pots running 10-11.5:1 ratio's as standard depending again on age, skimmed etc, then it would take a lot of tuning to get it right with various sensors missing and ability in the ecu, so generally, for safety's sake and on a road car at least - compression ratio is lowered to help protect from detonation.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio
 
What ratio you use can vary, personally, I have dealt with many big turbo/big name owners that run very low compression ratio's (sorting out their big name tunes) and they seem happy, up to dealing with a 2.8 24v owner who ran 9:1 at nigh on 700hp on pump fuel! I would therefore recommend keeping that ratio at 9:1 at most but this can come down to the tune as well, as mentioned, detonation and tune can make a difference so factor that in to what you are doing as those stresses count for a lot, you get different quality of injectors, fuel pumps etc. Get info on the tuners builds if you can (i.e. compression ratio, parts used, boost levels etc) - or simply research lot's of parts details and get an understanding of what they can do.
 
There are three main options nowadays to lower compression; spacer plate, pistons and rods;
Spacer plates can vary in thickness which brings about various compression ratios, adding a gap between the head and block, options being - roughly 7-10:1 compression I think on the market nowadays. Main thing as boost rises using plates would be squish, which is why head and block studs would be a good upgrade, although you're talking nigh on forged piston money now but deal with the basics first!
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squish_(piston_engine)
 
Forged pistons we've mentioned above, 4032 will expand less than 2618 which what they all seem to be, various options on skirt mods to negate this, various compression ratio's etc

Another option fairly new to the market is low compression rods, I've dealt with some big name tuners testing these out in Europe and they seem to be happy, it negates the need for a spacer plate and add's strength in design and material, as they are a few mm shorter as you can see, still fairly new at this time though;
 
http://www.fcp-engineering.com/h-beam-steel-connecting-rods/106-vw-vr6-r32-28-29-32-special-turbo-161mm.html 
 
Material can count for a lot in terms of psi resilience or any physical properties of material and manufacturing processes v stresses and strains;
 
https://www.capitalsteel.net/news/blog/4130-vs-4340-steel-comparison
 
Low compression rods have the benefit of adding material strength in these areas as well as lowering compression for detonation purposes, negating the need for pistons and/or a spacer plate! 
 
Some basic overviews;
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston_motion_equations
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_materials_properties
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governing_equation
 
Ebay rods v Big name
There was an interesting thread on another forum about Chinese rods and I think they came to the conclusion that the rod bolts were the weak point. I put a thread up ages ago to see if I could drum up numbers for some custom x beams (not enough interest though) and in dealing with the manufacturers and suppliers I saw test data of 210,000+psi on the bolts if I remember right, surprised to read that then on that forum thread! Again, this can come down to the manufacturers used and variances in that respect - so I am skeptical about their statements somewhat being a reference to any "Chinese rods" if you will. Of course the big names all put up some data and talk about the development in-house and we all know they tend to hold up - as mentioned in the thread though, there are many factors to consider.
 
When I was dealing with manufacturers I think it came to in-between a 3rd and half the cost of a part manufactured in the UK (buying/filing patent, moulds and initial product) to outsource it abroad unfortunately, which is why many big name companies have done similar with parts, but the quality specified was still top notch (International QC standards/material spec etc) and the part would have been just as good if I had got the numbers. So, cheaper doesn't necessarily mean any less of a product and the blasé statements about such parts or locations should really be looked into more in depth! 

So you have a few options, generally;
Rod bolts (stressed area/tolerances v usage) - Low compression plate (various ratio's, needn't go crazy but match to tuners requests) is a good base to start with,
Possibly head studs/main studs/bolts - squish and alignments etc plus strength/clamping forces added here
Low compression pistons - as above really
Rod's - low comp or stock, various material/costs, again as above info
 
But....... give it a good refresh first, budget that then changes mentioned above as a base to help longevity and that's why some relatively stock engines can reach big power without forged parts. Well.....
 
The head can set you back a lot.... a hell of a lot really! Not always necessary as some show;
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL6Aq0WwZ3I
 
But it is the crux of power and is still subject to stresses and strains!
 
The head can take a lot of money to upgrade but, aside from checking oem tolerances and refreshing as mentioned for the bottom end, you could keep this fairly simple if in good shape.
Valve guides are often the bane of VAG vehicles with high mileage, just general parts refreshing things, I can't really emphasise that enough as I have seen people try and take short cuts time and time again and it always ends up costing them more!
Valve float can be a problem on older engines, especially if you are upping rpm limit's like many tunes do, so heavy duty valve springs is a good idea to stop this, again check guides though. Think about the basics logically, you know usage can knacker the springs, we all jumped up and down on the beds as kids and know what happens to springs in the long run, so how harsh a life has your engine led, how much are 2nd hand ones etc, what rpm you gonna run... should all be considered!
 
Whilst you are stripping your engine for the engine builder or your own DIY you can do some little things yourself, it's what I did years ago, just bought some simple dremel tools, files etc and had a go! You can do things like gasket match your manifold gaskets to your ports, you can chamfer oil and water passages, even have a go at porting and polishing. This work can end up costing lot's of money, you are better with things like flow benches obviously, but you can do some clean up and lot's of measurements and if you're going to have a go at DIY building then why not, just do your homework and be uniform in that if you can!
 
Cams can help get a lot more power/torque when going NA to FI as many will know, again this should come down to the tune and changes in your set up/your goals as they are generally set up for emissions/daily driving - all of this head work should really be specified to your ecu tune/cams/revs/turbo/boost and it can take up huge amounts of budget - usually pro engine builders will have their own parts they use and a lot of this is worked out with them - in terms of DIY - well, World's your oyster if you educate yourself enough!
 
So, just a brief overview, I wanted to mention the manufacturing and material side and some basics outside of the usual "forged is better" kind of thing.

Some basic info if it helps? 
 
1. Understanding design and construction;
In my experience, I was surprised to find that the material specification for something like an Audi 1.4 crankshaft was the exact same as a 3.2 when I did some years of research into parts manufacturing, but in hindsight and more management based experience, it stands to reason really! There's often talk on forums about whether something is forged or not meaning it is stronger but this is often something of a fallacy! Uniformity of the construction of a part can change based on the actual process that is undertaken on the part in question - as an example, say you want something that is 3" thick all across, pouring material through a little hole as in casting, could lead to some areas, for example, only being 2.95", this is therefore a flaw in the manufacturing process (usually why you need to buy moulds and designs and make a few in creating a product). There are some elements to consider, but just because something is forged, doesn't necessarily mean it is naturally stronger, it is nothing more than a manufacturing process.
There are, of course, some benefits to certain manufacturing processes, ensuring a greater uniformity of structure in that example, which ultimately could mean greater "strength" as is required for your application. However, I would look into the variances between forging and casting if you are looking into buying upgraded parts and try not to be fooled with marketing spiel.
 
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=casting+or+forging&*
 
So, what does ensure longevity in this respect? Well, material spec counts for a lot to be honest, this is a major factor in aftermarket parts and I'll let Mahle give a little info on the differences between common aftermarket piston choices;
 
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/pistons/tech5-trey-mcfarland-of-mahle-motorsports-reveals-piston-secrets/
 
Generally, in this respect at least, there are certain piston material specifications to choose from, 2618 or 4032 for the most part for piston alloys as well as manufacturing techniques. This is what most of you will look at for your options in aftermarket pistons. However, in my own experience of custom product development, there are (in the UK development I was looking into at least), other options available, notably custom material. I remember reading the material spec sheets for a certain alloy (for pistons) that would outperform both the 2618 and 4032. What was interesting to note though in their tests, was that at typical engine cycle outputs (notably the stresses, strains and heat cycles pistons are subjected to at constant high rpm), the 4032 were better at sustaining the thermal loads (being good at handling the constant heat of an engine in operation) than the 2618 material. In every respect the 2618 was better apart from this sustained load/heat at certain loads, which, to be honest, is what you want for performance engines, but there were factors that you may take into account for parts upgrades like the fact 2618 alloy expands more - hence the rattles more than 4032 pistons in general..... again something you want for a daily rather than a drag machine. Of course, some have negated this problem by using custom material on the skirts/sides of pistons to stop rattling, this, balancing the expansion properties of that particular material and the rattling that people do not want on their daily driver, are all factors to consider!
 
So - PART 1 - If you're thinking of paying  a lot for aftermarket products, I would personally look into these aspects to get the most for what you want, if someone tells you "it's forged, it'll be better!", then it can get far more technical than that! The more someone wants to sell this kind of product, the more I would expect to be enlightened to some details in this respect, there are, of course, sales pitches and some info that they don't want to share (I'd look into things like the spec sheets under stresses and strains or, for cranks for example, looking into things like case hardening processes and what x company does in that respect - best bet to get the info you should want, pester them!).

I would be careful not to be caught up in simple miss-statements like "it's forged, it'll be tougher!" or even, to be honest, "Chinese made stuff is rubbish!" - I have personally done a lot of research into it and it is far more complex than that, material, QC's in manufacturing, cost v every aspect in manufacturing etc is all subjectively relative - lot's can vary here for a start, do your homework though and you'll be fine! - Good example was on the "what turbo" thread where I state about Holset and their Wuxi factory - good QC's no doubt and their material spec is likely to be the same.
Coming back to findings then on oem use of material; if VW test out an R32 crank under the extremities they usually do in their usual testing, then lesser engines like a 1.4/1.6 produce less stresses and strains in testing comparatively as an example (not actually true with design limitations and piston speeds etc but for a base example let's say more stress on the best engine means inferior engines will put up with it), then this means they can use the same material across the board that will handle the stresses for a 100k warranty! 
 
Producing a certain mould for a certain part and using the same material, obviously with different moulds for the crank sizes unless, for example 12V/24V cranks, saves a fortune in product manufacturing overall – thus saving millions potentially in production for a company of VAG size and in terms of 12/24v changing the efficiency of heads only... an efficient design change – means that potentially, oem is not always the best compared to aftermarket stuff, even if people tell you it is!
So, for example, this 4130 steel used (I think that is what is used for cranks back then but can't remember, example either way) - will handle all the stresses and strains placed on it when they test their vehicles. So, there is no need for something like a 4340 then as it will only be adding more cost! Not only that, but imagine the discounts in specifying the same steel across the board... 100 tons for all cranks instead of just 5 tons for R32 cranks for example, huge manufacturing savings to be made there! Also, there are other aspects in manufacturing the product to think about in terms of money management as well - machining a part for example. The tougher, or harder in this case, something is, the more difficult it is to machine - 4 hours machining a 4340 crank, or 30 mins on a 4130 adds up to a lot of money in big production models over millions of units! Take a look at case hardening/nitriding/shot peening etc, all aftermarket processes for ultimate performance (but) with added costs as there is more labour involved - doesn't mean something isn't still forged, just what has been done to help.
 
Ultimately then, there are always budgetary constraints to consider at a management level in the major oem production, I'm all for VW using 4340 specially hardened awesome material for their top of the range vehicles, but ultimately, apart from either finite speciality circumstances, chances are the material will have had some compromises made in production as it saves millions for these reasons!

grab some 9mm flexible tubing and replace.

Event Title: VW FESTIVAL 2017
Event Author: VR6CABBS
Calendar: Club Events
Event Date: 08/11/2017 12:00 PM to 08/13/2017 05:00 PM
 
Evening Guys,
 
With the ever rising success of this show, I've booked a club stand for the full weekend for the club.
They will only allow us 10 cars so even though its a while away i'm taking names for a place on our club stand. 
 
To avoid disappointment get your name down early. This is a show not to be missed. Many a member will vouch for this.
You will not be committed to both the Saturday and Sunday but those who are arriving on the Friday will take priority. 
Let me know your thoughts and if you can commit then i'll list you for a place. 
 
The good old Mr Bradley @Dave_ciw will be there with us but only camping this year as his car is having a revamp. Still he is always in good spirit and will no doubt be falling over everyone's tent when slightly intoxicated. haha. 
 
Saturday
 
1. @VR6CABBS   Pass posted                                         
2. @Bealieboy      Pass posted                                              
3. @vdubhead      Pass posted                                           
4. @Matthew Harrison     Pass posted                               
5. @s3dxm  Pass posted                                                                                                  
6. Luke Bottomley    Pass posted                                                                                             
7. @Ajmk4r32  Alex Jacobs      Pass Posted                                                                                              
8.  @S4_Chris  Pass Posted                                                                                                   
9.                                                                                                      
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
 
Sunday
 
1 @VR6CABBS  Pass posted
2  @vdubhead  Pass posted
3  @mistline  Pass posted
4  @Matthew Harrison Pass posted
5  Luke Bottomley  Pass posted
6  @Glens-R32  Pass Posted
7  @s3dxm  Pass posted
8  @steve tomo  Pass Posted
9  @grahamkitchin  Collecting pass Sunday Morning
10  @Vr6neil Collecting pass Sunday Morning
11 Jamie Nightingale  Pass posted
12  Adi Bradley  Collecting Pass Sunday Morning
13
14
15                                                                            
 
As always we will be camping on the family camp so if you would like to join us crazy lot you need to specify this on entry and not whilst booking like previous years. If your camping, tickets need to be booked in advance. 
 
Check there website and get your tickets booked if you fancy it.......  https://www.vwfestival.co.uk/tickets
 
Show Info Entertainment Live Music Graffiti Beetle Raffle Directions Harewood House Meet the Team Contact Us Cars for Sale Tickets Traders Trade Stands Auto Jumble Show & Shine Displays Vehicle Displays Club Stands Sponsorship Shop Gallery   Advance Self-Print Tickets
11th to 13th August 2017, Harewood House, Leeds
VW Festival is a family-friendly, entertainment-filled weekend that has something for everyone. As well as looking around some of the best VW's that the UK has to offer. There is an awesome live graffiti display, entertainment shows, live music, a funfair and Harewood's facilities such as the adventure playground, bird garden and food court. Tickets are now self-print tickets, which will be scanned when you enter the show.
Benefits of buying advance tickets
Free child (under 16) tickets, when booked with adults
Entry to VW Festival, Harewood grounds, bird gardens and facilities
Year'd window sticker
Camping is ONLY available with advance tickets
Advance (prebooked) tickets
Adult Saturday or Sunday : £15
Adult Half Weekend : £30
Adult Full Weekend : £40
Child Tickets (under 16) : FREE
No additional fee for camping or vehicles
On-the-gate tickets
Only Saturday or Sunday tickets are available on the gate.  Weekend tickets must be bought in advance.
Adult Saturday or Sunday : £17
Child (5-15 yo) : £6.50
Under 5's : FREE
 
 
 

Click the below link to register for the VW FESTIVAL 2017 event

VW FESTIVAL 2017
 
 

Thank you

You mean the Wuxi ones? New Huddersfield made one's can be very hard to get a hold of and can often be a similar price to a Garrett! Some alternatives though.
 
From what I can gather there's probably 2 shops on aliexpress selling Wuxi one's, this is one;
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-GENUINE-HOLSET-HX35-3536338-3539697-6735-81-8400-Turbo-Turbocharger-for-KOMATSU-PC200-6-Excavator/32741369146.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.42.WjGbAm&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=531742a0-ca27-4e6c-8e73-ff0f63f76e2b
 
I haven't had a reply yet on the turbine side sizes on them though so ?????? - I have seen some UK sellers on ebay selling them with good size turbines though, best to keep an eye out on ebay for them. Just look at the stickers on who's selling what for how much.
 
The US has a good selection, they like their trucks over there, but factor in any taxes (was 20% VAT and about 5-6% of item+ postage when I checked years ago). There are a few "modified for aftermarket use" ones which I think Zentrum is re-selling below in the link.
 
http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/turbos-und-komponenten/holset-turbolader/hx40/holset-turbo-super-hx40-14cm2/a-32005/
 
Apart from that and sourcing one through a scrappers, a remanufactured one would probably be your best option, these 2 have been running a while sourcing different ones;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turbocharger-Turbo-Holset-HX35W-12cm-T3-twin-scroll-reman-new-/252698800050?hash=item3ad605afb2:g:6TEAAOSw5cNYbjFM
 
None in at mo, but UK based;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/compressor_racing_uk/m.html?item=262823058485&hash=item3d31799c35%3Ag%3AfCAAAOSw9GhYiM4~&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
 
And nowadays, just to throw a spanner in the works, B-W journal bearings are cropping up too! (I'll have to do another graph for those flow rates though )
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Borg-Warner-AirWerks-177280-S300SX3-60mm-A-R0-88-T4-for-320-800-HP-Turbo-/302164339905?hash=item465a65ecc1:g:15sAAOSw4GVYTncI
 
I'll post up if/when I get the Wuxi aliexpress details on the turbine side but any of the others offer a great alternative to the more expensive EFR/GTX unit's.
 

Also, on a further note; turbine/boost aspects to think about on Holset's;
 
If you get a Holset from a scrap yard, off a truck for example, they can have huge turbine sides (>29cm+) - and getting info on the turbine sides from general adverts like on ebay can be difficult, can be big ones like this, if they are shops re-selling them for the truck markets especially! For decent spool you want to be looking at the 11-14cm turbines, 16's or so for the higher outputs (550-600hp+), which some people do for aftermarket sales, but as most are stock diesel engined turbo's, they can therefore be way bigger!
 
Also, due to the diesel truck market aspects, the wastegate can be set for high boost so when people get them from the scrappers and put them on they get problems as they are boosting 2 bar! Some shops have started selling lower pressure wastegates now and some weld the internal gate shut too due to this, opting to go the external wastegate route. This can also be done for any boost leaks on twin scroll turbines if the wastegate slaves off one runner only for example as some do.
 
So.....if you are hunting at the scrappers (junk yard for our US owners) or are looking at re-sellers that cater for the truck markets, take care on the turbine sides and also boost pressures set!

Most I've dealt with tend to be looking around 450-500hp max on those 12cm HX35's (all crank hp figures for non UK residents reading this by the way). 
On the chart total flow should see you past 600hp (lbs/min x 10) - however in reality there are a number of factors, efficiency of your set up, what turbine size etc so I would say the 12cm is probably good for 500ish hp tops and either larger turbine or start looking into the HX40 past that..
 
There's an old thread here with spool info on the VR6 plus some on the older T series turbo's.
 
 

Galley photos of the weekend are all available for your viewing in the Owners Club Gallery 
 
Enjoy, because I know we did!  

Yeah got it done after having to argue with the bloke as was gonna turn me away for being low.

Yeah got it done after having to argue with the bloke as was gonna turn me away for being low.

Had an awesome drive home and had fun with a rado vr legend dave with his wamm bam bam bam 6 cylinder noise haha

Had an awesome drive home and had fun with a rado vr legend dave with his wamm bam bam bam 6 cylinder noise haha

Head still isn't firing on all cylinders but I have a solid 12 months to recover for the next round!
 
How was the drive home chaps, hope you all had clear roads!

Unfortunately it was just the black VR that was mine. Haha. But still I was last man standing.

There would of been 1 car left at 3.30 pal.
Mine. Lol.

Definitely haven't laughed so much in a long time was absolutely brilliant, I'll be doing the full weekend next year! The other Benn and his brother Matt are really grateful for everyone making them feel welcome and can't wait until next year already, though they will be bringing a man size tent next year!
Absolutely love everything about this show, the location, the atmosphere and the amazing selection of Dubs of all ages shapes and sizes. I second what Bealieboy said and say that if you haven't already, you need to go to this show!!

Two men one tent. If you could even call it a tent!!

The classic fartbox

The classic fartbox

Getup to fuck! (Irish accent)

I'm home. How I don't know but I've made it. Rough as a donkey's piles but that was the best weekend I've had in a long time. Thanks to Dave B (Our Club Chef) who's feed me and my boys and had me in stitches all weekend. Thanks to all the club members who attended.
It's been one hell of a quality weekend. Here's some pics.....

Now for a few more!









Bit of a random one folks just chilling with a pet duck!