charge cooling

[john555 0]

iv just ordered my charge cooler was thinking of using a rad off a motorbike does any one know if they would be big enough also do i need a large tank on water or will i get away with just a small header tank aprox 0.5liter

if any ones got any better ideas of were i could get a radiator i could use please let me know

[xyber 1]

Ive been thinking about using a bike rad with a built in filler car as it could save loads of space as its sort of its own reservior

Thinking something big like a hyabusa rad it it has the integral filler cap

failing that I was thinking about getting a custom one from here as ive heard good things about their gear http://www.allardturbosport.co.uk/

[john555 0]

yer thats not a bad idea been looking at this but not sure if it would be big enough

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Radiator-for-Suzuki-RM-85-Large-Wheel-Small-Wheel_W0QQitemZ150220404480QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10534QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

[xyber 1]

Im not sure how quickly/how much water needs to circlate to do its job Im guessing if it needs say 2ltrs/min and you only have a 2ltr res, then it cut it.

what size tank does your normally come with?

[Kelster 0]

How I understand it is, the reservoir just provides more water and hence would take longer for it to warm up, hence be more efficent for longer.

If the pump is is 2 litres / minute the it would still work with 0.5l reservoir as all the pipework would already be full of water, so in theory you could get away without a reservoir and just circulate the water within the system. But this would obviously heat up quicker and reduce the efficiency.

The size of the reservoir just adds to the total amount of water circulating around the system. More water = longer efficiency

That is how I understand it but could be wrong

[LarkinBoy 0]

I was speeking to one of the cooling guys at work and he advised the rad to cool the coolers water needs to be a minimum of the size of the coolers core, but the bigger the surface area of the rad the better air con rads can work well with some mods, should be enough space infront of a vr rad i pushed my rad forward over an inch to gain space in the bay. As for resevoirs they dont actually need one as long as you put a swirl pot in to remove air with a breather higher than the highest part of the system ,Mine is a non pressurising system dont intend the water to boiling point so dont need pressure caps etc just a small expansion 200ml

[john555 0]

gona try and run that bike rad with a small swirl pot then if it heats up to quick ill just try adding a second bike rad will still be cheaper that buying a proper rad

just wondering will and air con rad or a oil cooler work for water ?

[LarkinBoy 0]

a proper rad will work the best i think as that is what it is designed to do, as for the air con rad it was its narrowness that i thought was appealing simular looking viens and that, oil cooler will work but wont be as efficient viens are bigger for thicker fluids

[john555 0]

mite go get a air con rad and see how that works they are goin for next to nothing on ebay so mite as well try it

[FishWick 21]

Chargecoolers need to be built to spec. If you never plan on exceeding 12 psi or so, then you don't need a massive spec charge cooler.

As Kelster said, water volume is the key and when it comes to shifting heat from metal, there's no such thing as flowing the water too fast.

Get a good pump, some decent gauge water lines, and a good radiator.

I have a setrab radiator that is basically the width of the car between the headlights, a 3 US gallon tank and a Meziere WP136S pump, which is 20 US Gall a min.

Don't need swirl pots or anything like that. Water gets from the back of the car, round the rad and cooler core and back to the tank again in less than 2 seconds. It's just one continous stream of cold water..... it's super efficient :-)

It's been built to cope with 700whp, but you don't need anything that extreme for lower power, although when it comes to intercooling, it's nice to over engineer it :-)

[john555 0]

well iv just bought an allard modified charge cooler inlet manifold and im only running 12psi so should be sufficient

was looking at the bosch water pumps on ebay listed under charge cooler pump

and a aircon radiator off an evo5 or similar

not planning on using a water tank just got a small header tank 0.7L

has any one got a similar setup if so what do yous think of it

if any one can see any possible problems with this setup please let me know

[Lizard Racing 0]

John I have a new Bosch one for sale. £55 delivered

http://www.boschmotorsandcontrols.co.uk/elektromotoren/aggregate/wasserumwaelzpumpen/0392022002/index.htm .

[LarkinBoy 0]

Swirl pot is only usfull when a lack of space is a problem under the bonnet, plus makes bleeding air out a bit easier which is why i used one plus didnt want a tank in the cabin or boot , regarding running a largish water tank i would have thought if your chargecooler set up is correctly designed and efficient it would make a negligable difference, because if the set up is not up to the job no matter how much water is in the system it will heat up. I am no cooling expert by any means lol, but the man I get my advice from designs this stuff for a living so I like to give his advice a go

[john555 0]

John I have a new Bosch one for sale. £55 delivered

http://www.boschmotorsandcontrols.co.uk/elektromotoren/aggregate/wasserumwaelzpumpen/0392022002/index.htm .

hey mate cant get the link to work

will the pump flow enough for a charge cooler and does it come with an adaptor plug for the wires

[FishWick 21]

Swirl pot is only usfull when a lack of space is a problem under the bonnet' date=' plus makes bleeding air out a bit easier which is why i used one plus didnt want a tank in the cabin or boot , regarding running a largish water tank i would have thought if your chargecooler set up is correctly designed and efficient it would make a negligable difference, because if the set up is not up to the job no matter how much water is in the system it will heat up. I am no cooling expert by any means lol, but the man I get my advice from designs this stuff for a living so I like to give his advice a go

[/quote']

My pump has a bleed screw, so I don't need to worry about swirl pots, or gravity, or anything like that, regardless of available space :-)

Mine *is* designed and setup correctly :-). It was designed for 700whp.

I could have gone for a little system, but 1 litre of water, a small rad and small pump will not cool 40psi of compressed air from a GT35 to 8 to 10 deg above atmosphere, that's for sure. ;-)

[LarkinBoy 0]

My post was not intended to be derogative towards your set up or anyone elses far from it, and i agree the larger the cooler core and front rad the better due to better cooling abilities because of size. Just dont think large reseviors are required if the set up is efficient

[FishWick 21]

I know it wasn't, relax! :-)

I hear what you're saying. Rad and cooler size are important, but regardless of their efficiency, they rely on water to absorb and disperse the heat and what I'm trying to say is CCs are built to purpose.

A bucket of water won't disperse the heat of a square foot of hot metal very well. But a bucket of water is plenty for a peice of metal a 1/4 of that size.

If you've got a socking great turbo with big flow and pressure, it's going to really heat that cooler core up and 1 litre of water just won't have the holding capacity to absorb the heat. It will just start boiling.

I carry 12 litres of water in the back. It travels up and down the car, so I have the water volume in those lines (22mm bore), plus the cooling effect of the air under the car, plus the water in the cooler and radiators is big capacity.

After 4 hours on the dyno, the water in the tank was luke warm. The cooler and rad were cold to the touch.

Low water volume will do the job, but not as well as a higher capacity. It's basic physics.

[LarkinBoy 0]

What boost pressure are you running? and what power are you pushing? just being nosy. Fair enough a big resevoir increases you play time and having it in the boot stops heat soak but do you really think its the key to a good system ? I am always up for improving my stuff, as it is fabricated by myself exept for the cores bit to tricky them viens. I am only cooling 1 bar see what happens

:S

[FishWick 21]

392hp @ the crank with 11psi currently.

I would say water volume in a water based intercooler system is fairly key.

If a tiny amout of water will suffice in your application, then fair enough.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as overkill when it comes to cooling hot metal.

For me personally, it makes no odds how much water I carry as there's no interior behind the front seats and the water tank and battery are placed on the passenger side as ballast to help counter my weight, so it helps with handling balance.

[LarkinBoy 0]

water volume in the cooler and rad are key i agree, I was on about the large tank you have behind the pas seat is that what your on about?

[FishWick 21]

Yep, we're talking of the same thing....

The large volume of water provides a lot of latent heat capacity. Just like a big amplifier heat sink.

My system is completely over kill for the boost I currently run, but that was intentional. And the intake temps reflect that - all year round. Should the day come where I want to run crazy boost, I know the capacity is there already :-)

[Kelster 0]

Kev is just getting ready to fit this turbo me thinks ....

[FishWick 21]

Have you been raiding my photo albums again? That is me with one of my early prototype turbos. The one I use currently is 3 times the size :-)