is my vr6 faster than a type r civic?

[melinamotor 0]

i havent come up against a typr r yet' date='lookin 4ward to it tho.....

if it helps i have had nemourus new golf gti's,they not very happy to see a k plate golf go past em with me waving lol

[/quote']

The new Golfs are rather slowwww only the R32 is a match for an R, I'm assuming this street racing malarky is acceptable on this site then.

As for standard VR golfs doing CTR's, mmmm probably down to the Honda driver being sensible or a crap steer.

To be honest I dont condone street racing at all and if some jumped up jockey in a Saxo hoons past me on a dual carriageway I let him go.

I dont give a toss if he brags to his mates down the local Mc donalds he "wasted" a CTR.

My next motor will be a Lotus Elise or similar, why ,because I want a car that feels good to drive at reasonable speeds. My CTR bores me to death and the steering drives me potty, yes its fast, but not involving enough to be a true enthusiasts motor.

[Eat this 2]

nah radogang had a reputation on a ctr site i frequent shouldve known it wasnt you as you can string a legible sentance together lmao

i do like honda vtec 4 pots they sound good too but they arnt a patch on the vr for noise and possibly tractability (sp)

[melinamotor 0]

nah radogang had a reputation on a ctr site i frequent shouldve known it wasnt you as you can string a legible sentance together lmao

i do like honda vtec 4 pots they sound good too but they arnt a patch on the vr for noise and possibly tractability (sp)

He's been quiet on the CTRO site over recent months

Totally agree with your comments on noise and tractability.

[harry 0]

Russ_vr6: is your vr an obd1 or have you converted to obd2?

keep up the good work annoying those new gti owners!!

[Eat this 2]

nah radogang had a reputation on a ctr site i frequent shouldve known it wasnt you as you can string a legible sentance together lmao

i do like honda vtec 4 pots they sound good too but they arnt a patch on the vr for noise and possibly tractability (sp)

He's been quiet on the CTRO site over recent months

Totally agree with your comments on noise and tractability.

i thought he got banned?

who are you on ctro site?

[melinamotor 0]

nah radogang had a reputation on a ctr site i frequent shouldve known it wasnt you as you can string a legible sentance together lmao

i do like honda vtec 4 pots they sound good too but they arnt a patch on the vr for noise and possibly tractability (sp)

He's been quiet on the CTRO site over recent months

Totally agree with your comments on noise and tractability.

i thought he got banned?

who are you on ctro site?

I use the same name on every car forum I belong to ^o) melinamotor.

[Russ_vr6 12]

Russ_vr6: is your vr an obd1 or have you converted to obd2?

keep up the good work annoying those new gti owners!!

she is an obd1 mate,but with a remap

[VR6Pete 1,455]

had a play with a few civic type R's, didnt find them particulary fast tbh...

[melinamotor 0]

had a play with a few civic type R's' date=' didnt find them particulary fast tbh...

[/quote']

I hope you dont mean on a public road, as that would be irresponsible

Obviously in standard form like for like they are faster, but hey performance mods always upset the apple cart. Down to the driver at the end of the day.

[FishWick 21]

The CTR is let down badly by the wooden steering feel' date=' although not to bad on a smooth track, on the road it can lead to some scary moments especially when wet

[/quote']

Yeah I found that. Very little feel, which is why Honda went back to the 'old school' hyrdaulic assistance for the Integra.

Back in 2002 I test drove a MK1 CTR, a dealer demo no less, so was probably a little tired compared to the showroom examples. Anyway, I'd already read on the net that the 1st generation of CTRs had a steering rack fault that caused the car to pull hard to the left and yep, the example I drove did exactly that. The dealer was none the wiser, which came as no surprise!

What I loved about the CTR was the gear shift, you instantly connect with it and it's electric in it's responses. The Golf shift feels like it's connected with play dough by comparison....and yes, the only reason the CTR is quick - imo - is because of the very short gearing, but because of it, urban driving feels brisk. However, on the open road you need to be a little more proactive to keep the motor on the highlift cam....you can easily get caught out in the wrong gear and you have to string the motor out hard to catch up again. It's good fun for a an hour or two revving the nuts off it but it soon become tiring and you hanker for lazy torque again! it's also a bit too boomy in the cabin for my liking, but each to our own!

[matth76 1]

I had one behind me one day and we both accelerated from a roundabout and he kept up with me for a bit but I started pulling away from him after about 10 secs. He was definitely trying as he wanted to race at the next roundabout. However having said all that I wouldn't say there's much between an OBD2 vr and ctr. Prefer the VR as its far more exclusive and sounds better. ctr's are so common these days. For the same price as a ctr I would far prefer the mk4 R32. Now that is an exclusive car.

[melinamotor 0]

The CTR is let down badly by the wooden steering feel' date=' although not to bad on a smooth track, on the road it can lead to some scary moments especially when wet

[/quote']

Yeah I found that. Very little feel, which is why Honda went back to the 'old school' hyrdaulic assistance for the Integra.

Back in 2002 I test drove a MK1 CTR, a dealer demo no less, so was probably a little tired compared to the showroom examples. Anyway, I'd already read on the net that the 1st generation of CTRs had a steering rack fault that caused the car to pull hard to the left and yep, the example I drove did exactly that. The dealer was none the wiser, which came as no surprise!

I know of several people who have the facelifted version of the CTR who are on their second steering rack. Not just the original CTR suffers from that particular problem. Although these cases are in the minority and dealers will replace the rack under warranty.

Mine is one of the first 1000 built and the only thing ever to go wrong was a dodgy headlight motor.

As for the R32, well they may be a rare sight on the road but I found them to be sluggish on turn in and way to nose heavy to be a "Hot Hatch" class vehicle and no disrespect intended but they are nice to sit in but boring to drive, sorry. The latest GTI however is great fun and feels nimble on its feet, maybe on paper performance isnt up to much but the real world drive feels great.

I await the scirroco (IROC) with anticipation as I would love to return to the VW brand after a five year absence.

I never thought I would leave the brand until the Mk 4 golf arrived, awful things, the only saving grace for the Mk 3 was the VR as the GTI was a sack of s***.

[antera309 3]

I'm thinking about putting this topic in the FAQ section because the old VR6 vs CTR debate comes up so much on here! What does everyone think?

[melinamotor 0]

I'm thinking about putting this topic in the FAQ section because the old VR6 vs CTR debate comes up so much on here! What does everyone think?

All of these "versus" debates are a bit of a farce, most of the road tests in magazines etc etc are pretty accurate when dealing with new cars.There are plenty of resources out there if one wants to find out how well their car performs in standard form.

Its pointless people who have power gains through modifications posting they have blasted the latest hatch favourate into the weeds, thats why I assume they have opted for power gains.

Driving isn't about drag racing anyway, its the twisties that count.

In the real world "point" something of a second means absolutely nothing when traversing a nice twisty B road. I would imagine this forum would be just as biased towards VW products always finishing first just as Ford's, Vauxhaulls,Hondas, Renaults etc etc etc are seen in the same light by their respective owners.

We all know what standard cars are the fastest or most sorted to drive so why embarress oneself with conjecture and street racing posts, lets revel in being lucky enough not to have to drive around in Citroen Saxos

Couldnt resist that one

[FishWick 21]

The CTR is let down badly by the wooden steering feel' date=' although not to bad on a smooth track, on the road it can lead to some scary moments especially when wet

[/quote']

Yeah I found that. Very little feel, which is why Honda went back to the 'old school' hyrdaulic assistance for the Integra.

Back in 2002 I test drove a MK1 CTR, a dealer demo no less, so was probably a little tired compared to the showroom examples. Anyway, I'd already read on the net that the 1st generation of CTRs had a steering rack fault that caused the car to pull hard to the left and yep, the example I drove did exactly that. The dealer was none the wiser, which came as no surprise!

As for the R32, well they may be a rare sight on the road but I found them to be sluggish on turn in and way to nose heavy to be a "Hot Hatch" class vehicle and no disrespect intended but they are nice to sit in but boring to drive, sorry. The latest GTI however is great fun and feels nimble on its feet, maybe on paper performance isnt up to much but the real world drive feels great.

The R32 shouldn't have a dull turn-in with the amount of caster it runs! Maybe the rack just isn't as quick as your Honda's? I found the CTR turned in a bit too quickly for my liking, making it very fidgety on badly cambered and bumpy B roads. It's not a car you can hustle along as effortlessly as you can in these conditions as the R32.

Nose Heavy.....it's a myth. Everyone says the 911 is arse heavy too, but it's one of the fastest point to point cars on the planet....oh and the "Nose heavy" MK5 R32 is Evo's quickest hatch round their circuit

MK5, now you're talking, it's a fabulous effort by VW and they should have done that with the MK3, rather than going all soft and soggy on us..... it's defo the pick of the current hatch line up as it's so damn competent and confidence inspiring, just what a hatch should be...imo. I do find it odd that CTRs and Scoobs seem to be everyone's arch rivals :-)

[melinamotor 0]

The R32 shouldn't have a dull turn-in with the amount of caster it runs! Maybe the rack just isn't as quick as your Honda's? I found the CTR turned in a bit too quickly for my liking, making it very fidgety on badly cambered and bumpy B roads. It's not a car you can hustle along as effortlessly as you can in these conditions as the R32.

Nose Heavy.....it's a myth. Everyone says the 911 is arse heavy too, but it's one of the fastest point to point cars on the planet....oh and the "Nose heavy" MK5 R32 is Evo's quickest hatch round their circuit

Here we go with the fastest round a track quote

A friend of mine owned an Evo 6 a few years ago and tired of it very quickly, the reason he cited was down to the fact the car presented no challenges, it merely went round corners whatever speed he was doing wet or dry and never really tested his ability. The sad fact of the matter is he had more fun in his wifes focus than his Evo :-|

Mate, the GTI would be my choice over the the very competent (no doubt about it)R32.Why, because it is more involving full stop.

The Mk5 R32 looks bloomin awful to boot, whats with the chrome effect grill and lousy choice of wheels

I wouldn't say nose/arse heavy is a myth, not by a country mile, if it wasn't for a raft of electronic trickery the Porsche would fishtail all over the place like 911's of old

The steering on the CTR is the worst I have experienced in any car I have owned and I agree with your comments whole heartedly.

Dont get me wrong, the R32 is a very very nice piece of kit but its just not my cup of tea. Im sure the new RS3 Audi will be a corker too but yet again the price will be up in the stratosphere and this just doesn't make sense when the GTI offers so much.

The CTR was a breath of fresh air at a time when the hatch market had gone all staid. However one wishes to criticise the CTR one thing is for sure, it set a benchmark to which other manufacturers aspired to and have now succeeded in beating.It has become a modern day XR3i and is now a common sight on the roads.

I think cars like the VXR and Mazda MPS have set an upper limit on two wheel drive hatches, any more power through the front wheels is impractical from certain engineering perspectives.

Dare I say it but it appears a lowly clio sport 197 seems to be the motoring hacks current choice and although I have yet to pluck up the "courage" to try a french car I bet its a hoot to hustle along the road.

[FishWick 21]

Horses for courses. Some people like the car to do everything for them :-) But I agree, you need to feel where the outer limits are to prepare for the consequences if you push your luck. With cars that do it all for you, there's a limit to what they can prevent from happening - it's physics after all - and when they go, they go, big style :-)

I was going to say the MK5 R32 has nasty wheels and a horrid, tacky grille but you beat me to it!

The thing with 'nose heavy' is that most people assume it automatically means more understeer, but it's not true. Take the Corrado VR6 for instance. You have to be a pillock to wash that out round bends, and if you do, just take the front ARB off ;-) For an iron blocked V6 engine, 170kg is comparatively light and the Corrado shares the same 64/36% weight distribution as another FWD great - the Integra Type R :-) I will also be bold to enough to claim to be able to keep up with said car on challenging B roads in my Corrado :-) I guess a lot of it boils down to driver skill / confidence though.

I'm not bashing CTRs, I was very close to buying one, but the steering put me off, otherwise they're pretty good cars and certainly very good value, reliable, cool etc.

Clio 197. From what I've read they are not a patch on the 172/182. I have driven my mate's 182 Cup and that was quite something in the bends. Wasn't a fan of the engine though personally, but being used to a V6 for the past 4 years, most 4 pots are quite coarse and thrashey by comparison. The French do know a thing or two about suspension though and it shows ;-)

[melinamotor 0]

Spot on,

The 172 and 182 are quite something on a decent stretch of the black stuff, I love the way they lift a back wheel on demand round the tighter turns.

The trick dampers on the latter are magnificent, although my faith in French metal was dented many moons ago when the engine literally fell out of the Pug 205 I once owned I'm sure they have all moved on since then though

The Corrado is an absolute peach to drive and if the right example came along I may be tempted again, your comments on the Integra are just right. The DC2 is without doubt a proper type r and is the only car I would buy in white I have yet to try a DC5 but I do love the look of them.

My aim this coming year is to try a two seater as an ownership proposition, we have a nice sensible Primera as a family car and I dont really need the practicality a hatch offers. Therefore my rather modest short term ambition is to own a Lotus Elise before I get too old to get in and out of them

I was initially saving for an NSX but owing to the fact I have just become a Dad again the finances wont allow for it.

I do hope however VW continues its current rennaisance (spell?) as I have always loved the brand, I can still recall with fondness the feeling i had driving my "Mars Red" Mk1 GTI for the first time. The scirroco storm a mate of mine had was also very very nice.

VAG seems to be concentrating hard on driving dynamics and are putting themselves back in the performance frame, good on them