Possible problem with timing chains ..what the average price I will have to pay?

[matth76 1]

Hi

My golf VR6 (which has now done 75k miles) has a slight raspy noise on full throttle which The Phirm says sounds like the timing chains are going to need replacing. They have quoted between

[silverline 0]

im surprised yours needs the chains doing at only 75k miles and being the obd2 engine the valve driving gear is stronger than the obd1.

nonetheless i ve recently done my chains it cost

[matth76 1]

They said it could all be done by just taking out the gearbox. If they do the "Hydraulic tensioner"... is this "part" of what would need doing when the timing chains are replaced? I don't really want to spend

[silverline 0]

if they are taking only the gearbox out then they aint doing all of it.when they say the hydraulic tensioner i guess they mean the big bolt that goes thru the chain cover? that doesnt necesserily need changing although the acutal tensioner that it pressurises might.

what concerns me is you say that rattle hardly notices. my chains are now silent but there is what sounds like a rattle which is infact the injectors. that cant be stopped that is just injector noise and i wonder if thats what they can hear? a "raspy" noise isnt created by chains. a raspy noise is usually associated with an exhaust blow or an air leak.

if it was chains you would know.

[RIX 0]

260 for a water pump change,wow the pump cost around 30-40pounds in germany,takes a hour to fit.

[28v6r 0]

Look 4 a second opinion I'd say... Try using a long screwdriver against the timing chain casing and listen to it with your ear.. there you will hear how bad it may be...

[apd 0]

they say if you rev and hold @ 1200rpm when cold the noise indicates chain rattle or not.

[apd 0]

you need a post from kevhaywire,a very knowledgable chap when it comes to vr lumps.

[andy 0]

I can assure you it's perfectly possible to do both chains without taking the engine out, I've done it recently, you only need to take the gearbox and clutch out and you can get to upper and lower chains no problem at all. As for the hydraulic tensioner, don't sweat too much mate, it costs in the region of

[andy 0]

Probably worth getting a second opinion on the noise mate, it doesn't sound particularly like timing chain problems to me.

[matth76 1]

Thanks guys for your replies. They said they will need it for two days to do the Hydraulic tensioner. If it's only a 30sec job seems a bit strange why they would say that.

What do I have to do with a screwdriver??

My engine does sound tappety but was assured by Stealth when I visited them a couple of months ago this is usual and my car sounded normal they said.

I have to say my car sounded the same as it always has done - if I really did listen I could hear a faint raspy sound - it was this noise that the guy said was the timing chain problem. I'm going to get a second opinion definitely. Seems very odd - however I don't want the chains snapping. And I'm sure the guy is just erring on the side of caution.

Can anyone else confirm what is involved with the hydraulic tensioner and if it is indeed a very quick job? The guy did say it was the large bolt on the back of the engine that is the hydraulic tensioner. How much would I be looking at to get them to do what ever needs to be done to the hydraulic tensioner?

Can an experienced but 'general' garage give me a good second opinion on timing chains etc? I'm wary of taking it to VW to get an opinion. There is a local garage that specialises in lots of sports cars so was thinking about seeing what they say. Thanks for any help.

[Nerih 0]

the best site for 12valve vr6 chains has to be

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409

detailed guide on how to do it yourself, + a sound clip with the noise, what you should be looking for something that sounds like a bicycle chain slapping, or any rattles from the passenger side of the engine...

take a look at the sound bite....

use a screwdrive as the metal (in the screwdriver shaft) will reverberate with the chain noise and you'll be able to hear noises from there more clearly..

get stealth to check for you, they are the only other (apart from my local vw specialist garage) garage i would i ever take my car to vince knows a fair bit about this imsure.

[matth76 1]

Thanks for the help guys. I listened to a sound clip of what timing chain rattle sounds like and mine certainly doesn't sound like that... however The Phirm are extremely good at what they do so they guy may just have caught my timing chain problem very early, as opposed to catching it late when there would be noticable rattle. He did say the noise was new and not there last week when he listened to it. They did say doing the hydraulic tensioner (I assume this involves tightening or replacing it??) may fix the problem and it may not be the timing chains after all. Can anyone confirm how much and how long it will take for them to do the hydraulic tensioner? They said they will need my car for two days - although it could be because they are very busy with other cars at the mo.

Also, how much is a standard clutch (just the part)? What max bhp can it withstand? Is it worth upgrading to a better one? (That is only in the event I do end up needing the chains done)

If anyone can answer my question about the hydraulic tensioner and how much it may be for them to do that would be great. Thanks for your help guys.

[matth76 1]

Anyone?

[andy 0]

I have changed two hydraulic tensioners and promise you that it can be done in the time it takes to make a cup of tea. It is a matter of undoing the old tensioner bolt and screwing the new one in. It's not even hard to get to.

A VW clutch, (the only one worth buying imo) is

[28v6r 0]

Again I'd stick wif a second opinion rather than go down the route of changing just because ISO its a weak timing chain going, it sounds a bit iffy to me, not discrediting the Phirm in anyway at all, but the raspy sound could be a small exhast blow at the manifold say like a gasket gone or a vacuum hose split or something like that.. its worth further investigation I'd say before splashing out large wonga on something it may not be, remember your mileage is pretty low for that type of sound to happen and timing chains "very rarely break.." I'm told , they just get more rattily and can jump a tooth !dodge but IMHO I've yet to see one snap ...

[matth76 1]

Thanks guys for your help. By the way when I was there he revved the engine full throttle (while the vehicle was stationary in neutral... and when the engine was cold) using the throttle cable in the engine bay. When he revved it really high for ten secs or so and then let it idle the whole engine lump rocked back and forth for quite a few seconds. It had me worried. I thought it was perhaps because he was doing this when the engine was cold... Is the rocking normal?? Not sure if this is coincidental or not but it was soon after this when he revved it high again that he heard a 'new' faint raspy noise that he said was the timing chains. Why would my engine rock back and forth like that?

They are ringing me back on Mon or Tues with a price to do the hydraulic tensioner. I'll see what they say.

I know The Phirm are extremely good at what they do and certainly have a lot of experience don't get me wrong ... just that I am a little worried about my car IF the timing chains are on their way out ...so need to be sure before handing out nearly

[28v6r 0]

The rocking could be as simple as a weak engine mount, I had to replace mine when I purchased my car...2 years ago, that would highlight a rocking on the engine...

[Nerih 0]

No one in their right mind revs their engine at full throttle when cold!!!, no wonder it rocked, i bet you it doesnt do that when its warm.

m8, take it to stealth or phone vince. vwvortex has instructions on how to change the hydralic serpantine belt tensioner if thats what you talking about...and it involves putting a bolt in to loosen the tensioner and then undoing a few bolts and then putting the new one on and bolting it up...

as a rule of thumb, noises from the drivers side of you engine are NOT timing chain related, noises from your passenger side *could* be.

please please get a second opinion, just put your mind at ease, there isnt much we can do on the forums for you m8...

record it maybe we can help you, but i doubt it, get it to another garage, and dont let them rev the shit out of it when its cold, its bad for the engine, ask anyone here,

i doubt the mechanic revved it to 6.5k, the sound wouldve deafened you, even 3000-4000k isnt nice on an engine that is cold....

[andy 0]

He's not referring to the serpentine belt tensioner, he means the hydraulic upper timing chain tensioner.

I second what Nerih says, no one revs a cold engine, under ANY circumstances in their right mind, least of all a mechanic I would hope. I'd expect that to be noisy, and I'd expect the engine to move a bit. I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with your engine at all tbh.

[Nerih 0]

cheers for the correction, i dont know much about the vr timing gear...check the vortex site im sure they have the instructions for doing that stuff

[silverline 0]

mine was really rattly and expected the worse, ie stretched chains broken tensioners worn rails.....but when i stripped it down it was all as good as new apart from the upper guide rail had snapped allowing the chain to go slack unless something has broken, which is unlikely on the ob2 engine, id say you have nothing serious to worry about.

and 2 days to change the tensioner bolt?!!! you couldnt drag it out for 2 days if you tried, it is litteraly a 10min job all done!

[matth76 1]

Thanks for your replies guys. The Phirm are very good at what they do, and I have started to notice the rattle which is very faint - although it doesn't sound much different to the tappets...I really have to listen hard to notice it. However I suspect the mechanic had just noticed the rattle very early on before it develops into very audible 'typical' chain rattle. Is chain rattle often hard to distinguish amongst tappet noise? I can only assume I mis-heard the mechanic when he said 2 days for the hydraulic tensioner - he must have been referring to the time it would take to do all my timing chains and not the hydraulic tensioner. Stealth quoted

[Nerih 0]

take the car to stealth and a decent second opinion (echo!), they will diagnose the problem without a doubt......i really do have alot of faith in the guys there, they are REALLY good.

[silverline 0]