Custom made VR6/R32 X Beam Forged Rods

[RBPE 198]

Okay, changed this first post.

 

Forged rods and pistons design, manufacture and sale from start to finish.

 

Already lot's of options available for 16v/20vt etc and some variations, have a read through the post and Ill make a note, any other engine owners you know show them the post etc......so,

 

Need about 7/8 of you buying the same part to justify it.

 

1. VR6 12V/24V Forged 4340 X-beam rods are now available - 45 day turnaround, custom batch order, major manufacturers - x2 - pretty much everything half decent from China/US/UK/AUS you see on the markets will likely come from these inc. Skunk2, probably all generic "bay" rods come from these. Been personally dealing with them for many years.

 

Price - £35-£40 per rod + postage and duties. Give you an idea, say add £20-30 postage per box, then times by 1.26 for UK taxes.

So - £40 x 6 + 30 x 1.26 = >£340 is a rough estimate for a set of 6 X-Beams at this time. Then postage from Manchester to you or come and collect them, cheapest/only custom available at this time I think.

 

2. Can also do this for any other engines, price very similar, see what you can drum up, more people equals less cost.

 

3. As each is a complete custom order, I want to do forged 4032 pistons for the 24v turbo models as it is what I mainly deal with - 9.0:1 in 0.5mm overbore size is what I am thinking for the order, but it is the forge plant so whatever people drum up is what is available.

 

Price for these is about £50-60 per piston then add the taxes etc above. I'll be dealing with coating companies too which will be additional.

 

Have a few local crews interested in 20v parts as a side note, will obviously get some myself so we have at the monet;

 

12V/24V X -Beam 4340 rods, me a few sets +

 

1. swivelonit

2. mk3highline

3. sumpslammer

4. jazvr

 

Pistons - update shortly

Edited September 7, 2015 by RBPE

[VR6Pete 1,455]

Bump Incase anyone missed this!

[RBPE 198]

Some piccies:

 

I beams:

 

H beams:

 

X Beams:

 

[Swivelonit 119]

Do they make them for the 2.8 24 valve AUE engine?     I have been looking for some for a while now from either Integrated Engineering or Turbo-Parts.de all of which are more expensive than you mention.

 

 One final question, has anybody got any experience? Tried and tested them?

[Mk3highline 287]

I might consider some of these for the future of the 2.8 24v

Also what are the weights of these in comparison to the standard ones?

[Mk3highline 287]

Putting a post on the corrado forum there might be a little interest there?

[RBPE 198]

The 24v and 12v rods are the same and for R32 it needs to be bored for a 3/8" bolt so I can enquire if they will do that for any interested parties if you shout up?

 

In terms of forged rods you have some that do all development in-house like Pauter/Carillo etc, about 99% of other forged rods on the market are pretty much made from the suppliers I use in China. So anything you see from Australia/US/UK that isn't an actual named brand that talks about development in-house in their own forging plant, are probably using the same rods. My suppliers are major forging plants/manufacturers with millions of pounds of turnover and good quality control standards, it's just you have to order in bulk.

 

The only difference between these and the £350-450 H beams you see on the market around the world is that;

a) I am buying in bulk so money is saved there, and

I have negotiated them to make me a custom batch of X beams for the VR6 if I buy in bulk as they sell I and H beams for the VR engines only at this time.

 

So, any German H beams, US H beams, Aussie ones etc are all likely the same rods these are unless they are a well established manufacturer of forged parts like those I named above.

 

Hope that clarifies things as it upsets me to see people pay £600 for a set of £250 rods thinking they are superior when they are the exact same rods!

[Mk3highline 287]

Im in

But see what's available for Pistons only problem being that there are so many variations high comp low comp over size etc

Got any weights for the rods mate

[Swivelonit 119]

I would also be interested in rods & Pistons for the 2.8 24 valve AUE engine, I will keep an eye on this post to see when you are ordering 

[Mk3highline 287]

I will put this up on corrado forum

But I'd be very interested in 10.5-1 Pistons for low pressure turbo set up

The design is crucial though so will do some research as not too sure with the narrow angle v design for the piston tops

[RBPE 198]

Okay, bit more info from my supplier - seems I will have to buy at least ten sets of rods, perhaps more for the prices - there are also 159mm and 144mm H beam rods available for 20vt and ABF etc - will obviously be cheaper than a set of 6 for the VR's, so any interested parties pipe up.

 

The VR6 rods are rated by them at 750hp and come with ARP2000 rod bolts as standard, at least 550hp for the 4 cylinder H beams.

 

4340 forged steel, balanced to within a gram of each other, magnafluxed, heat treated etc - pretty much what you read about all the generic rods on the market - more than 15 years manufacturing experience, International QC standards etc.

 

They also do pistons; they do the VR6 12v at the moment, would have to enquire about any others, they do them in 4032 and 2618-T6 - for any that don't know, 4032 usually suffice for road applications and seem to hold prolonged high thermal loads better in material testing, however the 2618 have more expansion (hence the rattly sound from some aftermarket pistons) and take a bit more abuse due to hardness - I would personally choose 4032 unless going for a race car but each to their own.

 

I am getting some more info on the pistons now too - will be back when I hear from them.

[RBPE 198]

UPDATE:

 

Talked to suppliers - plenty of VAG parts available at present but we are sorting a bulk order for best prices, plus I am seeing what we can do custom order wise for 24v low comp pistons (4032 spec) and get some 1.8T and VR6 ones too at the same time. In short, I am going to have to buy something like 300 units in total (pistons and rods) to get the best prices or get them to custom make some parts for me!

 

Initial prices I am estimating, including UK duty/import taxes is in the region of £50-60 per unit (i.e. a rod or a piston) - so we will work with that as a base-line - chances are though it could drop to around £45-50 per unit at best so the £289 estimate seems right.

 

So, for a set of forged 4032 pistons or forged 4340 rods - £45-60 = £180-240 for 4  or £45-60 = £270-360 for 6.

 

I have two major suppliers that sell something like 10,000 of these parts a month so I will get a full, detailed list up of what I can do and then we will organise it from there - should have all the details within the next week.

[RBPE 198]

Few more pics:

 

Can also do this type of I beam rod as opposed to the other ones I posted up;

 

 

Some of their pics of pistons;

 

[RBPE 198]

Update:

 

As the rods are going to be a custom order they will come with the manufacturers own bolts, I have just looked at a tensile strength test report and it was a touch over 211,000 psi, which puts them on a par with the ARP 2000 ones or you may want to upgrade to them anyway.

 

 

So, this is what we have at the moment;

 

1. A batch of custom X-Beam rods are going to be made up, they can do 7/16 and 3/8 bolt holes so should suit both the VR and R32 vehicles. When I get enough interest it will be about 35-45 days to make them apparently.

2. I am going to design, unless someone has a spare forged low comp piston they wish to donate, a set of 4032 forged pistons for the 24v vehicles - low comp for FI applications as that's all I really deal in.

3. They can provide other VAG pistons and rods but tend to do 10sets plus each order, however, they have said they will negotiate this depending on the interest I get and numbers in.

 

Will get the weights of the rods they sell for those that have asked, I forget to ask them - sorry. Obviously the X-beams are custom so they will not be able to tell me that but I'll find out the H beam weights for you.

 

Anyone interested in "community designed" rods and pistons - I have read a lot of FEA stress analysis and computational dynamics of the forgings and parts over the years so have a good basis - but any pro's in the community should speak up about certain things.

 

So - firstly;

 

Do we want rifle drilling or not? I would be inclined to say yes, it can add to the cost a touch but these are likely the cheapest VR6 X beams on the market anyway!

 

Any pro's that want to talk about tang etc by all means pipe up;

 

[Mk3highline 287]

Good news

I was essentially after 10-1 Pistons for a low boost turbo set up but I don't want special treatment lol

[RBPE 198]

I would still go a bit lower for an FI set-up, around 9.0:1 is what I am aiming at for with the 24v pistons, still gives good driveability off boost and you can push it to 2 bar with that ratio.

 

However, I need 7/8 people wanting a set and then you can have what you want (so long as you want the same thing), so if there are 8 of you that want 10.0:1 then we can do it.

 

They already do a 12v piston, I'm at work so not had much time for calcs but looking at some of the Wiseco pistons for FI VR's, they have a compression height of 32.38mm which yield's 9.0:1, the ones my supplier does at present are 30.54mm, if someone's not as busy please do the math or I will in due course - like I said though, get 8 of you together and I will make up the difference and we can produce whatever you want in terms of forged pistons and rods!

 

As for the X-Beams, they have agreed to do me both 7/16" and 3/8" so these should suit all VR and R32 engines if there are any R32 owners out there that want to chip in.

[RBPE 198]

For those that asked - the weight of the VR6 H beam rods is 570g including rod bolts

[Sump_slammer 23]

forged pistons and rods.... Im interested even tho I'm building it with a spacer atm but hand spares if the price is right. few questions. what diameter pistons are on offer for the 12v vr6? and what would i be looking at for a set of forged rods and pistons? how many people have you got together number wise so far?

[RBPE 198]

People are still in the air as to whether or not they want the rods so I have no definite numbers yet.

 

The supplier should be sending me one of their H beams to look at and show you on here to drum up more interest sometime soon so I'll be taking some more detailed pics of them when they arrive.

 

Pistons wise - I think they are high comp and as such I would not be using them as I mainly do FI - I think if I do a custom piston order for FI VR6's, with enough numbers, I am going to do them from scratch or based on a popular forged brand in 4032 if anyone has an old forged piston spare?

[RBPE 198]

As I have not had many numbers regarding these rods I was talking to the supplier to see if they do any major companies and to get the interest up - my supplier also supply Skunk2 for those that have heard of them and many of the other major companies as well apprently so these rods are well proven.

 

Come on guys, let's get the numbers up!

[Swivelonit 119]

I am interested in a set for my AUE 24 valve 2.8, send me a price, very interested.  

 

Would be interested even if you don't manage a group buy they will still be cheaper than JE etc

[RBPE 198]

I am interested in a set for my AUE 24 valve 2.8, send me a price, very interested.  

 

Would be interested even if you don't manage a group buy they will still be cheaper than JE etc

 

Hi - it doesn't quite work like that.

 

This is what happens - my supplier forges them in-house, then sells them to big companies like Skunk2, hundreds at a time usually, who advertise them as their own rods - I can also get my own corporate logo on them etc if I want and do the same but I thought I would do it as a Group Buy to see what numbers I can drum up. As these are major forging plants you need to order at least 60+ units, sometimes 100+ in order to justify the tooling costs (same as in the UK).

In order to do this I need to get the numbers to justify the costs - £9k was my last tooling/purchase quote for custom nickel alloy exhaust manifolds but that was in the UK and it's obviously a bit cheaper from abroad, however that is the price for just one mould/tooling - so each different rod or piston has to be like that.

 

The more people I get, the cheaper it will be overall but I have to buy a number of one particular item - for example - if I was to cover the VR engines in full I would need to buy like 60 pistons for the 12V, 60 for the R32, 60 for the 24v, etc and if rods then it's 60 for the R32, 60 for 12v/24v and so on. Then there is high compression, low compression, 9.0:1, 8.5:1 etc to take into account ....

 

Prices I would be offered would be somewhere in the region of £25-50 per rod or piston from them depending on size of order, then there is packaging and in the UK you also have to add about 26% of the total cost including postage to cover the VAT/Import duty - i.e. if it is a £5k order with £1k postage costs you times the £6k by 1.26 to get the overall costs including VAT/Duty (20% VAT and about 5-6% for car parts import duty).

As they are large orders from abroad there is also currency fluctuations too to take into account for best price.

 

Soooo - I cannot just give a certain number nor is there any point in me designing and ordering say one set of pistons at 9.0:1 and one at 9.5:1 as each one needs expensive tooling for the plant.

 

I'll start a list shortly and see what you are each interested in and see what people would be happy with instead - i.e. if more want 9.0:1 pistons rather than 8.5:1, then it would be tooling for that.

 

Hope that explains it but it is why you get a £700 set of pistons for £300.

[RBPE 198]

Hi all, sorry for the late update, mad busy!

 

Few more options and info now;

 

1. Can get X-beams for the VR6 now, one of the suppliers is ready, need to get about 6/7 of you for them though as they only do bulk buys. This is not the supplier that sells to Skunk2 though but have been around for many years. Price is likely to be around the £50 per rod mark at present including duty/taxes to arrive in UK.

 

2. Have been dealing with one of my suppliers, SPA Turbo who some of you may have heard of, I can get discounts on single and multiple rod sets now although they currently don't do 164mm ones but if you are looking at any of their other VAG ones let me know, I can get discounts on single boxes of rods over their advertised prices as well as further discounts on bulk orders - if interested e-mail me directly please as I am busy!

 

3. I have also spoken to them about making us some custom pistons which they will do if I can fulfill a 200 pistons order! Price will be $80 plus import duties/taxes per piston inc. pin (usually times the cost of item plus post by 1.26 to get an accurate amount to the UK). They have been doing pistons for years but the VR6/R32 is a bit small for them to do this unless we can all sort something?

 

So we have a number of options now if we can get the numbers up to a decent amount.

[JayzVr 106]

I'm definitely interested on rods and Pistons

[ibs 308]

I would be up for a set of Pistons