grr major vr6t help wont run right

[powernut 1]

hi kev many thanks on asking , not really anyprogress , i tryed a new maf , no differnce , added new ht leads and differnert type of plugs , still same , i noticed when i removed my idiol control valve , it stopped the reving up , but then always cuts out when revs drop , , ive soldered a standalone loom here so i can plug it into the vag vr6 loom only thing this standalone is a megasquirt2 ;-( so maybe ur timing ..msq maybe set up differnert ur welcome to send a decent base file , and i can use the sensor valves, etc as im instailing the standalone as we speak ,,,, soon see if it cures anything ,other then issuises i have at moment kev

[DanH 1]

have u set the idle with the screw on the throttle when u remove the isv? Mine kept cutting out when revs dropped till I opened the tb up a bit

[FishWick 21]

So long as you don't exceed 14 degrees throttle position you can do that.

powernut, if you PM me your email address, I can send you a map. You just need to install the S80 software on PC to open it. You don't need to connect to an ECU to open and view maps.

You can just click through the screens and see if it helps!

[powernut 1]

have u set the idle with the screw on the throttle when u remove the isv? Mine kept cutting out when revs dropped till I opened the tb up a bit

withidiol valve i adjusted screw to correct setting ,made no differnce , after i removed it , i had to screw the thottle body screw a fair way in for it to idiol ,,,

[DanH 1]

hmmm.... i need to keep a little gas on for about a minute till it warms a bit, but even so i didnt have to open it excessivly....idles about 900

So long as you don't exceed 14 degrees throttle position you can do that.

ooops why? im probally buggerin my engine up

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

So long as you don't exceed 14 degrees throttle position you can do that.

ooops why? im probally buggerin my engine up

Going over 14 degrees take the ECU out of idle ~mode.

[powernut 1]

after reseting the battery and giveing the engien another 30psi of boost only main issiuses i have is on and coming down to idiol , only now intermitanty backfires from accelering and just before boost 2500rpm , strange , but ive now removed the stock ecu and ill give this stand alone with internal 38psi map sensor a try see who things progress , as its driving me mad ,

[FishWick 21]

30psi! Holy smokes! What AFR were you seeing at that boost?

I've sent you a map mate. Watch the load points as they will differ, but it will give you an idea.

[powernut 1]

30psi! Holy smokes! What AFR were you seeing at that boost?

I've sent you a map mate. Watch the load points as they will differ' date=' but it will give you an idea.

[/quote']

recived the info and downloaded the info , everything set out rather differnert to mine so , ill have to dig around it to find whats what ,,starts getting confuseing after useing vag, the ms now dta, im seeing 11,0afr checked plugs nice and brown in boost , so i wouldnt say im a million miles away, noticed theres a vr6 runing 640bhp 34psi /spacer, arp bolts on a stock lump lol

[spadam 7]

30psi! Holy smokes! What AFR were you seeing at that boost?

I've sent you a map mate. Watch the load points as they will differ' date=' but it will give you an idea.

[/quote']

recived the info and downloaded the info , everything set out rather differnert to mine so , ill have to dig around it to find whats what ,,starts getting confuseing after useing vag, the ms now dta, im seeing 11,0afr checked plugs nice and brown in boost , so i wouldnt say im a million miles away, noticed theres a vr6 runing 640bhp 34psi /spacer, arp bolts on a stock lump lol

640bhp on stock lump thats impressive. wouldnt mind half of that lol.

[powernut 1]

well today , a bit of progress , i bought another set of ht leads , as the old these others were wire silcone leads , and these ive fitted are silcone ht leads with silcone cores which do seem better tbh , engine seems to rev cleaner,

main issiuse 2 issiues ive left are , soon as i start the car idiol valve instantly revs up just over 3000rpm , either cold/warm , then will very steadly down to 720rpm (takes a good 30/40secs to drop in rpm ) after cleaning replaceing hasnt helped ,

soon as i turn the engine off wait a few mins , soon as i start the engine , it will rev its nuts off like revs are stuck on ( theres not new cable and checked )if i rev the engine past a few times it will start and steadly drop again , pain in the ass because say i driving and i acceletre into boost , and come off the thottle the revs rise to 3000rpm which can be a pain slowing down, ive tryed 4 idiol valves unless ther all buggard?

other is runing a little rich when engines up to temp , which i still blame the 4inch maf pipe set up ,other then this , i was boosting nicely

any ideas guys

my thottle angle is 12.1 in vag?

[markiev6 1]

im runnin 630cc's no idle valve on standalone summer starts and runs from the off when its a bit colder have to give it bit of thottle to warm up only for min or so but then its fine

[powernut 1]

im runnin 630cc's no idle valve on standalone summer starts and runs from the off when its a bit colder have to give it bit of thottle to warm up only for min or so but then its fine

i could do with trying another basefile and msq to check wheather its the ecu or the tuning hernce why i fitted this stock modifyed one, only really the idiol issuise as i can live with rest

[FishWick 21]

Hi mate

I take it you're using the stock idle valve? Bosch p/n - 0280 140 512.

Sounds like it's the tune to me, especially as 4 valves do the same thing. That valve is exceptionally reliable and works very well when controlled properly. It's a huge idle valve by the way. Way more flow than what's required to idle a VR6 but VW open it at quite high revs. In an attempt to 'catch' the revs early I guess.

Sometimes the numbers in the maps are reversed. For example, 10% open is 10% open to most ECUs, but in some VW ECUs, 10% is actually 10% closed, or in other words, 90% open!! Could it be the file in your ECU isn't right? I know how arsey some people get when their code is criticised, so I won't want to make any assumptions.

Sounds to me like the idle valve PWM is too high and also too much timing in the zero load cells above 1000rpm.

Good stuff on the HT Leads. I like to use OE ignition parts. They're more reliable I find!

Sounds to me like you're ready for a remap or a standalone mate!

Idle is pefect on mine. Starts on the key and idles at exactly the speed I want it, without having to use my foot on the pedal. 1200rpm @ -10 deg slowly decreasing to 800rpm by +80 deg.

I used the stock idle valve but adjusted the stop so that it's fully shut with no PWM signal. VW keep the valve open with no signal, which can cause drivability problems. Just a tip for you if you want to use your Megasquirt.

[powernut 1]

well today i refitted the ms unit , with idiol valve removed ,managed tgo sort the basic settings and added afr/igition timing/ fuel maps , and car starts fine with only a reset issiuse (veiwed on a datalog and could see red lines intermitantly , i tryed the idiol valve but didnt know the correct settings tbh to put in the car , ill stick with it and see if i can sort other things out ,, bloody nightmare , boost is turned off until a get a decent map sorted then tunie in stages hopefully back up to 30psi , ps regards stock ecu tunie every starts revs boosts idiols perfect kev , if i remove idiol valve and alter thorttle angle it will idiol and oddy intermitant cut out , why ive not a chuffing clue ,,

[powernut 1]

, i really pref my ms2 on it , im getting what i think is a reset very intermitantly , as when i dose this i hear the feul pump relay reset at the same time , ive tryed added ford caps but for somereason it makes the engine miss bad in boost , heres a quick screen shot of the red lines , ,ps igore afr as engine backfired and buggared something up ,

as ive tryed the useal earths,caps, re programing ms unit

[FishWick 21]

I'm not sure what those red lines signify to be honest . Does the MS have a diagnostic screen to monitor battery voltage, skipped crank and cam signals etc, crank resyncs?

Settings for the idle valve:-

Operating frequency - 100hz

Max PWM = 80%

Min PWM = 30%

I use closed loop idle speed targetting, so my PID is Prop - 60, Int - 5 and Diff - 5 and max PID adjust of 10%. Interval delay = 0.5 sec

Some Standalones need a 1N4004 diode across the idle valve pins or it won't work.

You work fast mate! Got the MS in and running already, good work!

Have you got the right basic engine settings? Crank and cam positions, coil on time, trigger wheel type, injector dead time etc etc?

[powernut 1]

only a houe to make and solder a loom to plug in to vag loom , all baisic settings are in ie crank settings, injector, fuel map , igition map , warm up enrichments,cold enrichments, battery dwell, afr settings, fuel map , larch control , dual maps are set up , wideband set up , idioling without a idiol valve , i tryed it this moring - 15deg and started idioled a little low until it warmed up so i advaned timing to help , these lines are called resets common issiue with usely earths or interance from engine noise , ie injectors, alti, battery charge, etc , ive not messed with idiol valve as yet , but its ok at 8psi , not mutch but its a start , just altering mat as engine is hunting when up to tempture kev yet fine when cold , the ecu has upratted map sensor,lanarch fitted, thing for boost control,and idiol valve instailed , just not got that far yet , as im wanting to turn the turbo upside down , to reroute , air, and exhuast flow ,cheers kev nice to know someone who knows there ecus , other then others reading posts and saying its needs to be this and that ,,,

[FishWick 21]

Mine's been standaloned for 4 years, so I've had plenty of practice :-)

Did you make sure all the sensors go to the same ground? TPS, MAP, Water, air etc?

Crank and cam should have their own seperate sensor grounds but it's important to make sure all the other sensors use a common ground to ensure you don't get any ground offsets.

My DTA does a 'resync' when the crank sensor loses resolution momentarily, which results in a restart, so probably the same as your reset. I would check your crank sensor wiring. It shouldn't pick up any noise if you're using the VAG Crank wire.

Hunting when warm. What AFR are you idling at? Are you using closed loop fuelling?

I like to make all the cells around idle the same, both with fuel and timing. This makes sure the ECU doesn't interpolate in that area and locks onto a fixed number, which helps with hunting.

Yeah they do idle low without an idle valve. Too low for my liking if the hot idle is around 800rpm. If you hot idle at 1000+ it's usually acceptable when cold. I like a fast piston speed when cold though, otherwise my forged pistons wobble up and down the cyls too much, accelerating wear.

It sounds like you're close and you definitely know what you're doing, I think there's just some minor tidying up to do.....

[powernut 1]

hi kev i would say im ok with basicis lol rubbish regards rest , as ive pluged into stock loom unsure regards earths as i followed ms pin out daigram and used a old knackerd ecu plug to solder up ,

Hunting when warm. What AFR are you idling at?carnt get a stable 14.7 its runing 13.5 to 15.1 as altering the fueling boxes the same didnt help

Are you using closed loop fuelling, im unsure what this means kev. ill add some screen shoots , might make more sense

[legvw 0]

Could the hunting be down to you having too low a fuel figure in the cell before the idle cell, if that makes sense?!

I.e at 500rpm you have say 0 and at 1000rpm you have 50.

[powernut 1]

Could the hunting be down to you having too low a fuel figure in the cell before the idle cell' date=' if that makes sense?!

I.e at 500rpm you have say 0 and at 1000rpm you have 50.

[/quote']

i carnt get a happy idiol usely with the injector set up i run 27 in each of the 4 cells were the fuel map uses which i usely get a 13.5/6 afr , if i change it to say 26 it will send afr up and down , learn and rich , bloody things there are ,sure its ms that has a fault

when i had the 24v turbo on ms here were the resets ,

heres one i had with loads of resets

then i changed these in the ms unit which basicly stopped them

c31/c32/d24 and d19

and i had a no resets

but now the mk3 vr6 loom is fitted in the mk1 golf i get those red lines but very ramdomly

[powernut 1]

well found whats causeing the resets ,which are called ,,markers , which are caused by synco loss, so i first tryed re adjusting both blue vr pots ati clockwise until they click , the instailed but hasnt made any differnce so next , il alter noise in the ms screen shot here , of the settings ill add

and do a fresh tooth log to see how it works from low and high rpm ,

135.995,on the log im seeing were i lose sync and that's why the pump shuts off

[FishWick 21]

Ah OK, so you plugged the MS into the VW loom at the ECU plug. In that case the sensor ground integrity should be good.

I suspect you have an issue with the crank sensor connection though, which is causing the resets? Have you tried a spare crank sensor to outrule that?

You're running 630cc injectors at 4 bar? What injector pulse width are you seeing at idle? If it's less than 2ms, you might struggle to get 14.7 smoothly. A lot of big injectors lose stability at small open times. Try dropping the pressure to 3 bar and up the Pulse time. What cams you got chap? Again, big cams can cause idle instability.

Closed loop means the ECU will automatically adjust itself to maintain the target figures you give it. For example, 14.7 AF on cruise and 12 AF in boost. And also idle target speed etc.

No control over the tune is called open loop, but you need to be sure these numbers are correct, but the idle speed and fuelling will vary from one day to the next.

[powernut 1]

Ah OK' date=' so you plugged the MS into the VW loom at the ECU plug. In that case the sensor ground integrity should be good.

I suspect you have an issue with the crank sensor connection though, which is causing the resets? Have you tried a spare crank sensor to outrule that?

You're running 630cc injectors at 4 bar? What injector pulse width are you seeing at idle? If it's less than 2ms, you might struggle to get 14.7 smoothly. A lot of big injectors lose stability at small open times. Try dropping the pressure to 3 bar and up the Pulse time. What cams you got chap? Again, big cams can cause idle instability.

Closed loop means the ECU will automatically adjust itself to maintain the target figures you give it. For example, 14.7 AF on cruise and 12 AF in boost. And also idle target speed etc.

No control over the tune is called open loop, but you need to be sure these numbers are correct, but the idle speed and fuelling will vary from one day to the next.

[/quote']

right bare with mew kev , more techical stuff im runing 560cc at 4bar in stead of stock 3bar ie 560 at 4bar gives 640cc

regards injectors , on the ms screen its showing 1.5 msec?

if thats what u meant kev ,still having this reset issiue ive tryed adding noise settings rechecking earths lives and adjusterd vr pots which hasnt helped