Retardation Relay for Fuel Pump. What is it?

[thegoth 5]

Hi,

This isn't a VR6 question but you know I value VR6 owners knowledge more than anybodies.

My MK3 valver is showing similar symptoms to an 8v in another thread. The advice there was possible fuel pump relay problem. I phoned VW and asked for a fuel pump relay and they have supplied me with a Retardation Relay for Fuel Pump #19 not the #12 that Richie suggested. They couldn't find the part number Richie posted on their system!

As I've been chasing my problem for months now I'm happy to change anything that might fix it. So my question is, finally, what symptoms could a problem with the retardation relay cause.

TG

[kalv 0]

Not sure on that one... haven't heard of the "Retardation Relay"...? Maybe something to do with the resistance going through it is too much and it kills something?

[Focker-out 0]

Without being a total tool, do you not mean the ECU relay that causes the 8v GTis to cut out??

[kilokilla 0]

perhaps its just a relay for retards mate he he he just kidding thats a new 1 on me aswell mate what excactly is your valver doing anyway ive had a few and worked on quite a few more now.

[thegoth 5]

It's had an intermittent mis fire between 3 & 4K revs for a while now. In fact since on the way to Germany last Easter :-(

Once above 4K every thing is good.

Sometimes it won't do it for days then after leaving it standing for a few mins, especially in the wet, it comes back. If I cane it for a while it then goes away again.

Until the start of this week when it got suddenly worse. Now it happens across more revs and is bad enough to make the car stall. It then won't start at all for a while, 5 - 10 mins. and after a few coughs and splutters. If left idling it then dies again in no time.

I've changed every thing from the coil onwards, as no codes where showing on my reader, to no avail.

It's really getting me down as my nerves are now on edge every time I drive it.

[jims13 6]

yep, sounds like the fuel pump relay breaking down, like it does on the 8v

[kilokilla 0]

well as far as im aware the fuel pump relay is in the bottom right hand corner of fuse box and should have either the number 67 0r 167 written on it in big white letters these are the most common relays for messing around on mk3 golfs i have had them go down on everything from 1.4 to vr6 so when you say#12 and #19 what do you mean is that the socket it goes in in fusebox or is that the number on the relay and have you tried taking the bottom right relay out of your vr and putting it in your 16v mate ive also had wierd running issues with the 16v mk3s with the little air pipe that goes from inlet to the ecu try replacing that aswell because its just a thin cheap little bit of hose and it does cause some really wierd issues includig messing around through the revs and surging up and down on idle and misfires and it cant hurt to change it my last 16v mk3 was right temperamental and i changed that bit of hose and it then ran and drove like a dream they seem to clog up over time where they are so thin (airpipe) that is and for what it will cost you mate its well worth trying.Carl.

[thegoth 5]

cheers guys.

yep, I was meaning the socket number. Carl, that does kind of fit. Last time she ran well was after I disjointed a small pipe when checking the state of the filter so could have temporarily dislodged a blockage, like a DVT! There's two small pipes, do you mean the black or white one?

TG

[kilokilla 0]

The ecu is in the bulkhead mate with wiper motor which im sure you are aware of you will see there is a thin hose that comes off of it take it off from there trace it back to inlet i prefer to totally replace it but worse ways get an airline and blow it right out but make sure its completely removed from vehicle b4 you do blow out though cos if its still connected to ecu it may knacker something.Carl.soz but was a while ago when i last messed with 1 and i cant remember what colour it was but only 1 goes to ecu.

[thegoth 5]

yep found it, I miss read your post and was thinking of the two thin vacuum lines connected to the air box. Doesn't seemed to be blocked or holed. But will pick up a length of pipe as changing the fuel pump relay hasn't helped.

I'm reading 7ohms between the block and -ve battery terminal. Does this seem reasonable? As the only things I can now think off is a bad earth, or bad ECU, - as was the case with the 8ver - or both!

I've also got an ABS pump error showing. Could they be in some way related? Via a common earth point - he hoped, clutching at straws.

TG

[kilokilla 0]

mate try that hose first you wouldnt believe the issues it causes to the ecu and id be surprised if the abs affects it its on a different loom.Carl.

[kilokilla 0]

Any joy yet mate or is it still the same.

[thegoth 5]

Still the same :-( I did have a play bending the pipe to block it or disconnecting it and I see what you mean about the problems it can cause.

I've found this which seems to fit the symptoms as well:

http://www.tiepie.nl/uk/automotive/GMTO/VW_Golf_problem.html

So off to VW again...

TG

P.s. Can't believe how much VW charge for a bit of rubber piping, £6.50 + VAT a meter

[kilokilla 0]

So if im getting that all right basically they are saying its the ignition relay that is messing about and causing the problem allthough they dont actually stipulate which relay it is as far as i can tell or am i not reading that right mate .Its just its handy to know these things .

[thegoth 5]

It's the ECU power control relay position #3. Bad / jittery contacts are causing voltage variation to the ECU which basically makes the ignition pulse go funny, wrong timing, not enough voltage or some such. Leading to a mis fire.

Seems to have done the trick, touch wood. Haven't been out in it yet. Waiting for daylight. But it actually got up to temp with out being lumpy, it coughed as the fan kicked in, but recovered. Hoping the glitch was just the ECU expecting a mis fire and under fuelling and that it'll teach itself better with time. Since last week it's been erratic whilst idling and dieing just as the fan was about to start.

Thanks for all you advice Carl. Maybe see you in the new year for a VR HG and stem seal job.

[kilokilla 0]

cool thats the relay i figured it would be i just thought it ws called the ignition relay ive had a few probs with them on the vr6s never had to actually buy 1 cos ive always had spare 1s round the yard so thats why i wasnt sure what it was called and bad connections on relays is quite common did you just bend your prongs a bit on relay or did you get a new 1 and sorry you had to buy that new hose mate but as you noticed it does cause some wierd running issues mate oh and will be good to see you when you do need some more work doing mate .

[thegoth 5]

For £11 it wasn't worth fixing. It would always be at the back of my mind that it could be on it's way out again every time the car hicupped or I got hit by a gust of wind even.

No worries. I've now got a long list of 'spares' ;-) A garage would have gone through the same list but would have charged me for the privilege as well!

[montevr6 0]

For £11 it wasn't worth fixing. It would always be at the back of my mind that it could be on it's way out again every time the car hicupped or I got hit by a gust of wind even.

No worries. I've now got a long list of 'spares' ;-) A garage would have gone through the same list but would have charged me for the privilege as well!

hi mate

Ive got a valver for every day driving, i had a misfire problem when engine was hot between 3 4000 revs Changed the usual stuff,coil,leads,plugs.

manage to sort it after pulling all my hair out.

on mine it turned out to be the ecu feed relay.Ask vw maindealer,the plonker said no such part, so had to tell him to keep his expert knowledge to himself and do his job and look on the computer.

it was the best £10 ive spent on my car.

if you need part no.. hopefully tomorow. Hope it helps

[thegoth 5]

hi mate

Ive got a valver for every day driving' date=' i had a misfire problem when engine was hot between 3 4000 revs Changed the usual stuff,coil,leads,plugs.

manage to sort it after pulling all my hair out.

on mine it turned out to be the ecu feed relay.Ask vw maindealer,the plonker said no such part, so had to tell him to keep his expert knowledge to himself and do his job and look on the computer.

it was the best £10 ive spent on my car.

if you need part no.. hopefully tomorow. Hope it helps

[/quote']

Snap, that's the same cycle I went through. Luckily I've still got all my hair.

However, even with the new relay it was fine on Wednesday but yesterday (in the rain?) the idle went to pot after a while when standing hot and wouldn't restart for a while. :@ So I may have another problem to find.

Did you need to retrain the ECU? I hope mine has have picked up some bad fueling habits as I was running with the dodgy relay for a while, like 2 years!

[montevr6 0]

hi mate

Ive got a valver for every day driving' date=' i had a misfire problem when engine was hot between 3 4000 revs Changed the usual stuff,coil,leads,plugs.

manage to sort it after pulling all my hair out.

on mine it turned out to be the ecu feed relay.Ask vw maindealer,the plonker said no such part, so had to tell him to keep his expert knowledge to himself and do his job and look on the computer.

it was the best £10 ive spent on my car.

if you need part no.. hopefully tomorow. Hope it helps

[/quote']

Snap, that's the same cycle I went through. Luckily I've still got all my hair.

However, even with the new relay it was fine on Wednesday but yesterday (in the rain?) the idle went to pot after a while when standing hot and wouldn't restart for a while. :@ So I may have another problem to find.

Did you need to retrain the ECU? I hope mine has have picked up some bad fueling habits as I was running with the dodgy relay for a while, like 2 years!

what i did is drove it to vw bought the relay slaped it in.notice the difference straight away.when igot home took earth lead off for few hours.

the relay problem blew my alarm imobolizer too,

another thing you need to be careful about is the relay is dosent matter if the relay is new aparently some were faulty.

good luck sorting it.

[thegoth 5]

I haven't done the removing earth lead step yet. gonna try it tomorrow.