turbos again!

[nickvr 0]

i cant really afford to have the car off the road as its always needed but i want to look into turbos. if i was to buy a seperate engine an rebuild that (with turbo) what parts whilst rebuildin would you uprate from standard? makes obvious sense while its in pieces? cheers

[matth76 1]

The standard lump shouldn't need uprating internally as its extremely strong and can handle huge power. You would need to lower the compression ratio though, bigger fuel injectors, fuel pump etc, and fit uprated head bolts. However if it is all in bits then I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to fit uprated forged pistons etc!

[r32vr6 0]

The Standard lump will need uprating depending on boost pressures that you wish to run. Forged pistons are always an advantage - also uprated rods would be an advantage if you intend on running 18 psi upwards.

The only kits that i have seen running stock internals are the low pressure 7 - 12psi kits.

The problem that you have to watch out for is the thrust pressure when the turbo comes on boost (this can cause piston ring problems and bend conrods) and charge temps.

You can get compression plates in different sizes depending on boost pressure that you wish to run 1.5mm thick will run up to 1 bar for stock engines. 2mm thick will run upto 18 psi with head studs 2.4 mm allows 22psi after this stage the plates take up to much chain slack.

please note by using a plate your cam timing maybe slightly altered.

[IbiVR 0]

Up to 400bhp (1 bar ish) stock internals are fine. Use a spacer as above for anything over 6psi imo.

Over 400hp then use ARP hardware - stock rods are good for 600bhp with ARP rod bolts.

Over that you need to start spending money on pistons/rods, and if your doing that then ditch the spacer and lower the compression in the pistons.

Tom.

[nickvr 0]

whats the difference etween 24v pistons and 12v ones?

[Russ_vr6 12]

what bout mileage guys?

i mean mine's on 116k,but full vw history,uses no water and uses bout 1ltr of oil every 1500 miles,now would that still hold up to some kind of forced induction? while its bein asked what bout things like clutch,gearbox,driveshafts etc,do they tend to hold up given mileage?

cheers

[IbiVR 0]

116k is fine, so long as its helathy at the moment it should be fine. Change chains/guides and it'll should be fine.

Clutch is no good for FI even new - it might last a while depending what power your on, but worth changing it while the box is off to do the chains, gearbox is ok up 400bhp ish, over that its fine but if your boost come in hard then you might strip 3rd or 4th gear at some point. Driveshafts same really - i've seen them twist and rip out of the inner cv's but thats on a fair bit of power.

Tom.

[FishWick 21]

I've put a turbo on mine at 140K miles and it's fine. Just make sure the chains are OK as Tom says. If you need to do the chains, do the head aswell as they're starting to lose it by 80K usually, with appreciable valve stem slack.

Personally speaking, forget the hearsay and rumours, just do it :-) The motor can take it - if you go about it methodically and don't cut any corners.

Gear stripping usually occurs on the 1/4 strip once the tyres regain traction after a spin and 3rd is usually first to bite it....it's a huge load to shunt back into the box, which is compounded further by a quaife if you have one.....so avoid lunatic throttle openings in the lower gears.

It's a fantastic engine, well worth the hassle and expense

[Russ_vr6 12]

lol thank u guys

i do like the quarter mile and i would like to beat my 13.9 my old clio did.........

basically mine has been looked after,like i said she is got full history from the dealer i work at,and even on 116k she is still goin strong on her original clutch!

doin the chains arent much of a prob as i can get it done @ work,but thing is i havent got a huge amount of money to spend,sooooo my question is this,if i was to go s/c or turbo fitting the kit i would do myself thats not a prob,the thing is iv always been brought up on 'dont build what u can buy' and i just dont wanna find myself a year down the line with a car that has 270 odd horsepower, but a big bill when i could have bought a newer,faster lower mileage car,i guess its just me being old lol,but u guys see what i mean?

oh clutch wise as i work 4 vw i can get a o/e clutch cheap,is it worth it or shall i get an uprated one?

cheers guys

[IbiVR 0]

Original clutch just wont last with turbo power. you can build a 350-400bhp turbo vr for 2k if you do it yourself. Although chains will need doing really, and a diff would be nice.

Any help or info just pm me and i'll help out where i can.

Tom.

[Russ_vr6 12]

thanks guys this is gr8

now as i dont really wanna be messing around with changing comp ratio's what am i lookin at pricw wise for a low boost kit?

[LadVR 0]

I've put a turbo on mine at 140K miles and it's fine. Just make sure the chains are OK as Tom says. If you need to do the chains' date=' do the head aswell as they're starting to lose it by 80K usually, with appreciable valve stem slack.

Personally speaking, forget the hearsay and rumours, just do it :-) The motor can take it - if you go about it methodically and don't cut any corners.

It's a fantastic engine, well worth the hassle and expense

[/quote']

Yeah im gettin a fairbit of "it'll break this and that, put a 1.8T in"

Lots of it comes from people who have never built or driven one...

sorry for hyjacking the thread, but the turbo you purchased, does that match the engine ok?

i don't want 900hp at 6000 rpm, i'll be over the moon with 300-320hp, and im a bit confused as to what to buy!!!

[IbiVR 0]

RussVR6: Kit wise your a bit stuffed with RHD cars. I really woudnt use that ebay one althouh it is cheap - there a reason for it.

TBH theres not a huge diff in what you need for 6 psi/ 15 psi, so less boost doesnt necesarily mean cheaper. If you only want low boost you could not touch compression, dont intercool. I wouldnt reccomend it, but then al you need is wastegate, turbo, manifold, dv, injectors, downpipe and a bit of inlet piping, and map.

To be totally honest - for the power you'll get at a low boost kit (6psi for stock compression will get you around 270bhp) SC might be a better option for you.

LadVR: The GT30 is good for what your after, but is the pricey option. for the power your after a t3/t04e is ideal. slighlty later spool than the GT, but will still spool early and will easily flow the 12ish psi you'll need for those numbers. best all round turbo for spool, reasonable power (300-400bhp) and cost IMO is a T3/T04E 57 trim wheel .50 or .60 ar compressor with a .63 ar turbine. A proper garret one will cost you around 450, turbonetics around the same, there are cheaper ones about, quality is an unknown, but i have used the cheaper ones with no real problems.

Tom.

[Russ_vr6 12]

RussVR6: Kit wise your a bit stuffed with RHD cars. I really woudnt use that ebay one althouh it is cheap - there a reason for it.

TBH theres not a huge diff in what you need for 6 psi/ 15 psi, so less boost doesnt necesarily mean cheaper. If you only want low boost you could not touch compression, dont intercool. I wouldnt reccomend it, but then al you need is wastegate, turbo, manifold, dv, injectors, downpipe and a bit of inlet piping, and map.

To be totally honest - for the power you'll get at a low boost kit (6psi for stock compression will get you around 270bhp) SC might be a better option for you.

well basically matey id be happy with a s/c i just need it to be reliable,some people say turbo's better,some say s/c better and then others say shrick manifold is best lol,i know it depends on what u want and the situation,but basically i would like a bit more power,but as i use her day to day i still need reliability,what does f/induction do for enconomy?

[LadVR 0]

LadVR: The GT30 is good for what your after' date=' but is the pricey option. for the power your after a t3/t04e is ideal. slighlty later spool than the GT, but will still spool early and will easily flow the 12ish psi you'll need for those numbers. best all round turbo for spool, reasonable power (300-400bhp) and cost IMO is a T3/T04E 57 trim wheel .50 or .60 ar compressor with a .63 ar turbine. A proper garret one will cost you around 450, turbonetics around the same, there are cheaper ones about, quality is an unknown, but i have used the cheaper ones with no real problems.

Tom.

[/quote']

Cheers Tom, most helpful.

i'm just trying to get as much info as possible before i commit to one thing or another. its a lot easier when someone else has gone down a route before you!!!

Looks like i'll be spending some cash soon! :-d

[LadVR 0]

just found this:

http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/gatu.html/link

and more interestingly:

http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/25pa.html

Any thoughts on these?

[IbiVR 0]

Yeah they do they right sort of turbo, not bad pricing at the sale prices - there sale price is actually normal retail price!

The kit - yeah good choice on turbo, tial wastegate is nice, BOV you cant really use with a maf based car so not really needed. Its the right kit, but its not all that cheap tbh

I had a look - the spec turbo i was on about is 615$ i think, plus 20% vat duty and shipping, so around 420-450£ i think. not bad really - you'd struggle to get it loads cheaper.

Tom.

[LadVR 0]

Yeah i don't think i'd get it any cheaper. don't think thats a bad price, just got to take the leap!!

Cheers for the help!

[FishWick 21]

Yeah im gettin a fairbit of "it'll break this and that' date=' put a 1.8T in"

Lots of it comes from people who have never built or driven one...

sorry for hyjacking the thread, but the turbo you purchased, does that match the engine ok?

i don't want 900hp at 6000 rpm, i'll be over the moon with 300-320hp, and im a bit confused as to what to buy!!!

[/quote']

1.8Ts have their problems too.

Some people lean more toward the 1.8T because of the availability and ease of installation, and the 'potential' for more. What they often don't realise is just how small the stock blower is and how much it limits their outputs. The 1.8T can get very expensive when you want 400hp or more as it needs internals and a much bigger blower.

No engine is without it's inherent faults, but VRs never drop valves like the 1.8T can sometimes do ;-) The 1.8T is a great motor, I do like them. VW really kick started the VW turbo scene in mass numbers with that motor, but it's no VR T ;-)

Some people just seem to be afraid of the VR6 motor, even in N/A form, but honestly, they are an absolute doddle to work on - even the timing. They just get expensive come rebuild time because it's a 6 cylinder engine, even stock pistons are over £500, let alone fancy forged ones!

The turbo I've got is the GT3071R. '30' is the family, and 71 is the size of the compressor wheel. You can also get a GT3076R, which is the largest of the 30 family as supplied by Garrett (I think), but you can mix and match compressors and turbines and build something special.

Mine has a 0.50 compressor A/R IIRC (2" outlet) and 0.82 turbine A/R, so it combines the advantages of a mid size compressor with low A/R for quick spool, and the high rpm flow of the 0.82 turbine.

I'm really pleased with it. There just seems to be boost every where in the rev range (a kind of eager and ready to launch feeling) and when you punt the pedal down hard, it just goes, no lag, just instant thrust. I'm not talking TDI 1000rpm instant shove, you need variable vane technology for that, so it's not going to hurl you at a roundabout if you gently brush the throttle, but it's kicking hard from 2800rpm and there's enough below that to give good off boost drivability. It's a very civilised turbo.....but just don't boot it in 2nd in the wet :-)

It's the exact thing I wanted as I'm not really into the big turbo top end. I like my beans in the midrange :-)

I'm only running 8psi at the moment due to MAF clipping. When the DTA is on and running how I want it, I will leave it at 8psi and you can try it and see what you think. I think you will be shocked at just how fast even 8psi feels! I totally annihilated a Focus ST earlier and the engine didn't feel stresed in the slightest. I suspect I'm around the 280ish mark at the moment and my spool is definitely faster than the ST's as I pulled a convincing 2 car length gap almost instantly, or so it seemed.....hard to say without an independant witness, but I enjoyed :-)

Sorry for rambling, I find it hard to restrain myself to a few sentences, LOL!

[LadVR 0]

cheers for the info! i was a little confused when about the coding of the blowers "gt35XYZ etc", thats cleared that up.

cheers for the offer, got a feeling i would spending the rest of the day with a silly grin on my face! :-d

[FishWick 21]

Yeah it confused me too, but you learn quickly, especially when lots of ££££s are at stake ;-)

The GT35 and GT40 series are normally what Schimmel use on their 500-850hp cars, they are your top end monsters!

I just said to Bill that I want a stonking midrange and he sent the GT3071 over.....he knows his apples that man ;-)

[nickvr 0]

lovi the thread lads but sadly i used to work at a main dealer and belive me the sad stories of parts never 'actually' being changed are true. imo once you buy the car service it yourself its a hell of a lot cheaper an at least i no everything had been done and properly. keep a record of the parts you buy an make up your own porfolio i.e. dates you changed the specific parts an what you used!

[Chrisdut 0]

not all dealers are the same tho dude, dont know anyone in our place or the last dealer i worked at not fitting parts that are paid for

[nickvr 0]

no im not sayin there all the same mate

[Russ_vr6 12]

yea same at my dealer matey,we always change the parts but i unfortunatly have to agree with u nick,i know of some dealers by me that dont,its a sad fact coz the trust from main dealers gets ruined