Darkcobalt 0 Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 I have a wild project percolating in my head. I'm not sure it's possible, but it should be. I'd like to use the VR6's BIG brother WR12 in a mid engine project car. The 12cyl has little if any after market support. I guess Phaeton and A8 drivers think they have enough horsepower. Considering the 12 is just another VR6 sharing the same crankshaft........ Anyone out there have experience and knowledge of the VR6 ECU and WR12? OR someone out there have any ideas where I could go (be polite) to get this worked out ANY help is appreciated Thanks in advance Darkcobalt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philly-R6 27 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 One hell of a prospect! What are you thinking of putting it in? Have you got parts, or a donor car already? I have no experience of the W12, only OBD1 VR6's. But don't underestimate the work involved to mount the engine and transmission into a different car. Be honest with yourself that there is a plan/skill/money/motivation to complete the project. Watching car shows do a custom car in one hour is in reality many months of teams of people working full time. I had a cursory look on eBay for W12's and they are big money: Engine £3500, transmission £2000, plus ancillaries, plus ECU/Clocks/keys, wiring harnesses, etc. Sourcing a donor car (of sorts) would be well worth the investment. But then the cheapest Continental W12 is only £14,500 for a 2006 with 113k miles - just pimp around in that!! After all that caution, I want to be encouraging - as people shouldn't be told they can't do something. And I want to see a W12 in something cool! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 (edited) 12 injectors not 6 so you'd need to go through all the output system (ESKONF) there, any displacement/ cylinder differences inc airmass calcs for fuel...plus it runs a master/slave system for the other bank so you'd have so much to do there on sniffing lines so that everythings talking to one another properly....and so on. Crash damaged w12, can use most/all ecu/wiring parts but immo off will prob be same as any other me7.1.1., speak to a tuner that is a winols customer and buy a def file off them for a few hundred quid and then build your own tunerpro file to tune then log with vcds assuming the system's are talking properly. It'll prob be same tuning basics as 24v vr, so not a massive amount of gains NA, but it's the configurations thats your problem. Edited February 15 by RBPE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darkcobalt 0 Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 I think I found my answer Haltech.com R5 VCU. More conversations wth them but 'sounds good', so far. Philly, thanks for the warnings. There is never enough money or time. Been down similar rabbit holes. Imagine a 12 cylinder midengine Karman Ghia? Bulging bodywork to cover Porsche Turbo sized tire/wheels. Speedster like windshield? Basic idea. I have a couple other ideas for it. I do have a line on a complete VW Phaeton $5,000usd. Sorry I am in the states. Your club was first up that I thought could help. I will let you guys known when the project starts. Thanks for the replies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philly-R6 27 Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 7 hours ago, Darkcobalt said: Imagine a 12 cylinder midengine Karman Ghia? Bulging bodywork to cover Porsche Turbo sized tire/wheels. Speedster like windshield? Basic idea. I have a couple other ideas for it. Can't go wrong with a Karmann Ghia! I always fancied putting an Impreza Turbo engine in one, but that will remain just a dream for me.. Keep us posted!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darkcobalt 0 Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 6 hours ago, Philly-R6 said: Can't go wrong with a Karmann Ghia! I always fancied putting an Impreza Turbo engine in one, but that will remain just a dream for me.. Keep us posted!! Way back in the day, probably when your parents were young, and I was too..... 1977 my first project Ghia, I started in March, on my 21.st birthday. First drive end of November to my families Thanksgiving holiday dinner 50 miles away. First drive 50 miles, on a holiday! Kids! It had a whale tail, flared fenders over the widest B.F.Goodrich Radial T/A tires I could buy. Looked a lot like a Porsche Turbo of the day. Turbo motor, electric doors, windows, rosewood dash with complete set of VDO guages, am/fm cassette radio with a 10 watt auxilary amp. Looked good, pretty fast, handled great, except in rainy weather. Fat tires, light car. Scared the **** out of me the first time it aquaplaned. 60mph car move left 2 feet. A second or two later it moved back 2 feet to the right. Slow down? Heck no! I didn't want to be late for my date. Looking back, it was a bit crude. There wasn't much ready to go stuff available. Do it yourself, or do without. Times have changed just a little. I'll try and find a picture and see if I can post it here for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 (edited) On 2/16/2021 at 2:50 AM, Darkcobalt said: I think I found my answer Haltech.com R5 VCU. More conversations wth them but 'sounds good', so far. Philly, thanks for the warnings. There is never enough money or time. Been down similar rabbit holes. Imagine a 12 cylinder midengine Karman Ghia? Bulging bodywork to cover Porsche Turbo sized tire/wheels. Speedster like windshield? Basic idea. I have a couple other ideas for it. I do have a line on a complete VW Phaeton $5,000usd. Sorry I am in the states. Your club was first up that I thought could help. I will let you guys known when the project starts. Thanks for the replies I did help! Told you the easy way to do it but you seem intent on over-spending! 😉 Get donor car - use ALL or AS MUCH as possible in - ecu's/wiring/sensors/clocks - basically the electrical bits - configure as required (any half competent Motronic specialist if you're using the oem stuff) - done! They use a lot of the same parts in terms of inputs (sensors), it's just the dual bank/master-slave engine and ecu config - nigh on impossible or far too expensive as it'll have to be custom written/sniffed lines etc - all negated if you are using a donor and associated parts really. W12 info; http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_268.pdf (I'll let you look for part 1 there W8/ME7.1.1. Info; http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_249.pdf R32 info; (in there somewhere with part 1 of w12, V5 has some info too) http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/index2_eng.php Edited March 15 by RBPE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 (edited) Actually sorry - to clarify - this was in relation to the W8 using ME7.1.1. not even looked at the W12 tbh, was thinking W8, but if it's ME7.1.1. too then above applies. If not, then technically it still applies anyway as it's just configuring what sensors/inputs/outputs - same as any project really in that respect! Easy way to think of it - look at the ME7.1.1./W8 SSP in the link - it mentions some differences to the R32 ones in there/part changes etc. Also, other easy way to think of it is - if you de-cat, then the reading the ecu gets will not be oem due to the expected changes with a cat than without. You can tune your car to run right - may take time and you may still have a fault show up, or you can simply configure the ecu to think it has no sensor after the cat and bypass the strange readings, or in some instances, a mixture of the two, easier than doing lot's of tuning and still be tuned right. Either way, if you do a big project, use as much of donor bits mentioned above to save a lot of money and if you can use all/most of the electrical/ecu realted gubbins, then it needn't cost a lot to sort. Edited March 26 by RBPE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darkcobalt 0 Posted March 17 Author Report Share Posted March 17 Thanks RBPE LOTS of much appreciated info. Start date sometime in May. Need to finish The Shop first! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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