Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Evening all, just thought I'd share with you the issues I'm having with my Corrado VR6. Now I have a problem with the engine, it has always 'ticked' when cold so I've bought a new set of lifters that are waiting to be fitted, then I noticed a bad rattle sound when hot and under load, its worse above 3k and quite loud so I took it up to Dan at Devon Dub Shack, he advised me to see an old customer of his who is a bit of a VR6 expert, he suggested that it could be big and/or small ends.... bugger... however he has a mate who has an engine for sale... so a deal was done and I ended up being the proud owner of a spare VR6 engine. It came out of a Golf so I assumed it was a 2.8 AAA but I later found out that the Golf was a converted 1.6 and guess what, the engine is a ABV... result.. Oh, and it came with all these spares.. It was suggested that maybe due to the mileage on my car that maybe the oil is a bit thin for it, I serviced it myself and used the VW synta 10W 40 so I bought some really expensive 10W 50 fully syth oil from Opie in the hope that it'll quieten down the engine and maybe buy me some time.. it's worth a shot in my book, although I do now have a spare engine I really want it to stay a spare...lol So today I dropped the oil and filter. Checked out the filter and it's full of metal particals.... not good.. Filter housing full as well Although there didn't seem to be any in the oil..So I thought I better drop the sump, there was a few bits in the bottom of the sump but not much however the oil pump strainer was full so i removed the pump and got all the bits out. Then I got a surprise, I pulled this big bit out of the stainer.. Comparing it with my spare engine it appears to be part of the upper chain tensioner, there is also a bit of the securing rivet. mmmmmm I'm actually quite pleased, it now looks like the tensioner has failed and broken up so hopefully the rest of the engine is fine, I ran out of time today so tomorrow the plan is remove the upper chain cover and check it out, hopefully the tensioner is damaged and a replacement will solve my problems... however the gearbox needs to come off to get to the bottom of the tensioner... bugger... better than an engine out though...lol I'll let you all know what tomorrow brings... Oh, quick pic of the inside of an oil pump.. Rog. bennyk and VR6Pete 2 Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Wowsers! Just what you don't want to see in your sump!Fingers crossed it is just your guides, your best off doing the whole lot to be honest, just for piece of mind, must be pretty bad to have worn through the rivets! Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Personally I don't think it's just wear, the engine has 138k on it but the chains and tensioner so were changed by Stealth (before my ownership) a few years ago, I'll have to check the paperwork but I'm sure less than 40k ago.I think something has failed, I'll get the covers off tomorrow and report my findings.Out of interest, where is the best place to buy the tension runners? Also I've heard somewhere that there is a later all metal runner, is that true?Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
ssaunders 199 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi Rog, i think this tensioner is the later one thats needed, i believe that its the early MK4 one.http://www.vwspares.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=615good luck with the build.s Link to post Share on other sites
Lukey. 381 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 The later runner is one piece solid plastic instead of a multi piece part Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Update.. Ok, grabbed a quick hour down the garage and managed to get the top chain cover off.. Guess what, my tensioner has been replaced with the later type... so the question is... where did that piece of plastic come from??Has the top tensioner failed at some point in the past and that's been stuck in the oil strainer all these years or has it come from somewhere else... is the bottom chain tensioner of similar design?? Oh, and a quick pick of the cams, look like new, no wear and all looks nice and clean... looks like its been looked after. Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Who ever changed the guides didn't have the thought or care to check in the sump for the missing parts. Jakeyb 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Who ever changed the guides didn't have the thought or care to check in the sump for the missing parts.To be fair it was jammed right up in the oil pump stainer, I only found it as I removed the pump and was giving it a poke around in with a screwdriver to remove the metal bits. Rog. VR6Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I've had a look about the internet and discovered that the bottom chain tensioner is plastic so the metal flakes have not come from there.I wonder if it's a good idea for me to check the big end shells while I have the sump off, is this possible?Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Is the metal found in the oil magnetic? Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Is the metal found in the oil magnetic?Yes mate, it's like small bits of tin foil, really thin.Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Likely from the chain its self or from the 2 pins that hold the lower guide in. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Could it be from the bearings (big end or main), it's obviously not from the upper tensioner as that is plastic.I'm only getting my noise when the engine is hot, worse when under load and above 3k hence why I'm thinking bearings but I'm open to suggestions.Out of interest are bearing shells magnetic?Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Just been having a little think... What material are bearing shells made from because the bits I've found in my oil stainer are ferrous (they stick to a magnet)... Having just looked up tinterweb it appears that replacement shells are aluminium alloy, are the OE shells the same, if they are can I assume that the metal I've found is not bearing shells?I don't know what to do now, the metal has come from somewhere and I need to find out where however I did fit a 2nd hand oil cooler that I didn't (foolishly) wash out so it may have come from there, there is also the sound, what could be causing that, I thought it could be the top tensioner but it's not that.So options are.. Fit new lifters and new thicker oil... Pull gearbox and check bottom tensioner... Or.. Fit new big ends, lifters and oil...What do you reckon chaps?? Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think that engine has had tensioner failure to the point the chain wore through the 2 pins that hold the lower guide. Someone then changed the tensioners and left the shrapnel in the sump. The chain and the pins are ferrous. The oil filter you pictured, do you still have it? If so cut it in half and have a look how far the metal parts got. I think the tiny parts of metal have gotten around the entire oil path of the engine, causing your noise. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 What's the next step then? Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 What's the next step then?Rog.The oil filter you pictured, do you still have it? If so cut it in half and have a look how far the metal parts got. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ok mate, I've still got it, I take it I cut it across and not lengthways, is this to see how far into the filter the metal has got.If it has got past the filter what are the options? Can I blow out the oil ways with an air line?I can't understand why this has happened now, the tensioners were changed a few years ago when the chains were done (not by me) and all I've done is change the oil about 1000 miles ago.Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Doesn't matter which way you cut it, through the diameter or along its length, both will reveal both sides of the filter, adn allow you to see how far the metal pieces got. Think of what an engine does to oil, it literally smashes upon it constantly. Think about what pieces of metal would become after a period of time. Then think about where these even smaller places can make their way into. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I've cut the filter in half. Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Just flushed the oil cooler and its clear, deffo looks like the metal has come from my engine. Also had a good look round underneath (up into the engine, I can see the bottom of the bottom tensioner and it looks ok, both chains look ok as well with no sign of damage. Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 And finally we have an answer... Big end bearings... I've only dropped no 6 so far but I assume the rest will be the same...I'm actually quite pleased, at least I now know what's wrong and it's not too difficult to replace the shells, the crank is undamaged, I think I've caught this just in time. Ok, next question, where can i get replacement shells and what do you think has caused this?? the only thing I've done is change the oil although the oil temp does go quite high (124 was the highest I've seen) was the replacement oil maybe too thin for a 138000 engine (10w 40), oil pressure has never been low... any ideas?? Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
UnitedMotorsport 55 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 That damage on those shells was CAUSED by the ferrous metal in the oil. The rest of the big ends will be the same, as will the mains and the thrust washers. Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Chatfield 13 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Mate, I've made a mistake, just been down the garage and checked and the metal flakes I found in the oil pump strainer are in fact non ferrous, they are made of the same material as the bearing shell coating if that makes sense. Rog. Link to post Share on other sites
cactusjackslade 146 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The metal swarf that you have found is defiantly from the shells and nothing to do with the chain, as I'm sure you know now. This will have most likely been caused due to lack of oil or oil pressure, I'm sure that large piece of plastic you pulled out of the strainer wasn't helping oil flow. Link to post Share on other sites
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