Running Hot on trackdays - why?

[IanH26 0]

OK, been trying to sort this for ages now.

I am looking for any ideas on what to try to help with my VR6 track car running hot on TD's and reducing the time I can spend on driving. Issue I have is the car running hot on trackdays. It has always done this since building which limits my driving time as have to leave it to cool down between sessions.

For example last week at the Ring I saw the oil temp rise to between 120-130 degC on each lap with water hitting 100-105degC. I then had to cool down before I could use again.

Even on a motorway run it will sit at 100deg oil at 75mph.

I have tried all sorts to counter this issue listed below:

Now running two oil coolers in line (1x13 row & 1x16row)

Mocal oil thermostat removed

Neuspeed water thermostat installed

Brand new radiator

Full engine 2 stage coolant flush

Running water and wetter water only

Holes cut in bumper for air flow straight to rad.

Running radiator fans on manual override through slower sections.

Running heater on full heat and full blowers inside the cabin.

When I come off track the temps come down fairly quickly.

Oil/water temp sender replaced.

Using a different oil gauge now to see but not test on track yet.

As this doesn't seem to keep the levels down I believe there are other issues I need to investigate before ripping the engine out lol.

Last week there were the ClubGTi boys over.

Talking to them a few ideas were thrown up to look into.

One was to remove the water thermostat completely to see what happened. It made no difference.

The other ideas were that it may be running lean which would cause the engine to run hotter. They said I would need to get a lambda probe and test it to see what the afr is.

Checked with my local VW specialist (PSI Stoke) about when they did a RR and they checked the AFR - all was OK.

Had the graph checked by a mapper (Eddie on Club GTi) - all OK.

The other thought was when the head was skimmed it may have been skimmed too much and lead to increased compression ratio. Once again this may lead to running hot. - But the VR6 isn't affected by this. still got it sniff tested by my local MOT station and no HC's were found. Head gasket is OK.

Normally run 95Ron petrol.

I even tried flushing the system with washing tabs tonight on a recommendation from a VW mechanic (GVK) to see if that shifts a blockage in the system - yet to try.

Any other ideas on what it may be and how I can check / rectify?

Next step is a fabricated bigger alloy rad but GVK thinks there may be an issue with the engine and that will just mask it.

Another option is to swap the head but a different engine may be easier as mine is standard at the moment.

HELP ME PLEASE.

Ian

[VeedubVR 0]

My vr will see high high 90s sometimes 100 oil temp on the motorway. I was lead to believe that was normal.

What is everyone doing to keep inlet temps down? Inlei gets crazy hot and surely that can't be good.

[IanH26 0]

I have a corrugated cold air feed to my cone filter and created a kind of a heat shield round it to help.

Its the on track temps that bother me most as on the motor way they stay static.

[VeedubVR 0]

Sweet how did you make that? It helped reduce heat soak and kept inlet temps and manifold temps down?

[jimmyb 2]

my mate had 1 that used to run hot,:S he sold it though so i aint sure if it got sorted,if you do decide to look for a engine im in wolverhampton and have 1 in the shell all running 102k full service history,next service due at 108k,new bearings,brakes,abs sensors recent coilpack etc,£500 without k&n and scorpion backbox or 600 with,,feel free to come and have a listen to it if ever you want,only telling you this as i noticed staffordshire.but 1st things 1st and good luck trying to sort the hot issue out;)

ohh and the most i ever seen my hit was 106 for the oil,and the water is always smack bang middle,never budges over,

[Ian_rogers 0]

My oil is regularly in the 90's for everyday use, can sometimes hit 100 if drivin hard

Water usually sits just below halfway unless in traffic

[CALICO 130]

have you tried running higher octane fuel i run tesco 99

uprate oil pump

change water pump maybe its not pushin g the water round enough

did you try running just 1 large oil cooler

[IanH26 0]

Hi,

Now switched to trying running higher octane fuel to see what happens (got tesco 99 2 mins from me).

As said in OP have just changed water pump this week but not the oil pump. Can the oil pump wear? I thought it works then fails with no loss in between??

Used a single oil cooler at first (15 row) then added the second. Would difference would it make using one bigger cooler?

Doing Goodwood next Friday.

[IanH26 0]

Sweet how did you make that? It helped reduce heat soak and kept inlet temps and manifold temps down?

Aluminium sheet covered in heat proof matting (resistant to 500degC direct heat) not difficult to do.

[rodney 17]

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs...Have you done the basics here?

What thermostat are you running and does it work? Have you flushed the system (no blockages)and are you sure both water pumps are working correctly - if you're missing vanes it wont be efficient? Are your radiatires free and clear? Air passing over the vanes is the key here? What temperature plate are you running in the oil/exchange interface to the engine/crack pipes?

Are you using the correct oil and mix of coolant fluids? Have you changed the filters and oil regulalrly.. New oil is better than old.. extreme but race cars change after ecery session so f you're using the same oil doint 20k a year and track days then that'll be an issue...

If all these are correct then you can always look at race spec oils and fluids...

Hope it helps

[craggsy 91]

Well you have already spoke to some of the best people I can think of. Eddie knows his stuff judging by what's posted on cgti. Have you spoke to Paul horrocks as he knows his onions to.

As others have said how often do you drop oil and water?

[IanH26 0]

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs...Have you done the basics here?

What thermostat are you running and does it work? Have you flushed the system (no blockages)and are you sure both water pumps are working correctly - if you're missing vanes it wont be efficient? Are your radiatires free and clear? Air passing over the vanes is the key here? What temperature plate are you running in the oil/exchange interface to the engine/crack pipes?

Are you using the correct oil and mix of coolant fluids? Have you changed the filters and oil regulalrly.. New oil is better than old.. extreme but race cars change after ecery session so f you're using the same oil doint 20k a year and track days then that'll be an issue...

If all these are correct then you can always look at race spec oils and fluids...

Hope it helps

Thanks for all the replies so far.

To answer some of the points mentioned above.

As said in the OP, I have a new rad that I put in 3 weeks ago. I run a lower temp neuspeed water thermostat that I checked this week but is only 8 months old. I use water and wetter water only. Oil is now 10w50 race spec oil changed often and last change was 3 weeks ago before Ring trip.

I have now removed the mocal oil stat.

New water pump fitted this week but old one looked in good order, both have metal impeller. Aux water pump is working.

Only thing not done is check the oil pump yet.

But wouldn't the either be working or not?

can it reduce in capacity just like a worn water pump vane?

Main issue is the water temp would the oil flow lead to high water temps?

Ian

[craggsy 91]

Well the oil pick up could be blocked so not sending oil round where it needs too. Worth checking, and I have a brand new genuine one for sale if needs be

[CALICO 130]

Hi' date='

Now switched to trying running higher octane fuel to see what happens (got tesco 99 2 mins from me).

As said in OP have just changed water pump this week but not the oil pump. Can the oil pump wear? I thought it works then fails with no loss in between??

Used a single oil cooler at first (15 row) then added the second. Would difference would it make using one bigger cooler?

Doing Goodwood next Friday.

[/quote']

i would have thought 1 big one would be less stress for the oil pump

i didnt mean is the oil pump working i meant have you looked into an uprated pump of some sort

[rodney 17]

bit left field is the expansion tank lid blue??? Working??

[IanH26 0]

Not looked at an updated oil pump yet, any ideas on where to look for one??

I believe the pressure to be ok but would low oil pressure lead to running hot?

As for expansion tank, how can you test to see if it works??

I don't get any real water loss and it builds pressure when running.

If it isn't working how would that affect the car?

Ian