Polyurethane bushes VS original rubber

[brynvr6 1]

I am thinking about poly bushing my car and installing a set of Eibach Anti roll bars (22/25). I am looking for a good 'road car' setup that will increase the stability of the car and give it a more neutral to oversteer characteristic. However the roads round my way arnt great, and after researching poly bushes, I wonder if things like bump steer and tramlining might be increased by stifening the bushes etc. I have spoken to an Ex Powerflex dealer who said he would only replace the bushes with cutouts (IE rear wishbone bushes and rear beam bushes) as this will stop major track and camber/castor changes due to the bushes 'giving' in the direction of the cutouts. However he said he would renew all the others with original rubber to retain a reasonable ride.

If anyone has any experience with powerflex bushes and the eibach anti roll bars, what are they like to live with on a daily basis, how does the car perform on 'every day' roads?

Cheers.

Bryn.

[Knightrider 1]

As I type my VR is having a set of Eibach ARBs (22/25) fitted (I don't like grovelling around under cars on driveways!) right now. Should get it back later this afternoon.

Suspension wise the car is completely standard. It has done 70,000 miles, had new VW OEM shocks, front at 48,000 and rears at 62,000.

Objective is to reduce the roll (obviously) so that it improves the turn in (try a classic mini – that’s instant turn in), reduce under steer and make it more nimble. Mine is shocking when you have to do left-right-lefts on roundabouts or twisty bits. Not too bad in long, fast sweepers though. I’ll let you know how much difference they make. I use mine as a daily driver. I don’t want it slammed and I don’t want it rock hard. Here’s hoping!

[Knightrider 1]

Regarding bump steer. Have you got aftermarket suspension and is your car lowered (a lot?). The poly bushes shouldn’t have any effect on bump steer. It is severe lowering that causes it. Not sure about tram-lining, but I doubt it. I have read on here and other forums that poly bushes a) can squeak can wear out quickly – not sure if that is true.

For explanation of why bump occurs, have a look here: http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=2549

And all you ever wanted to know about bump steer and a lot you didn't here: http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=13

[Bigjobbo 0]

Got both on mine, Eibachs are a must. They sort out the roll perfectly. I poly bushed rear beam, front wishbone's both bushes, and the rack bush. Rear beam bushes again are a must, and easier to fit than VAG. In the dry she'll cock a wheel, but any grease and she has slight understeer, that's with coilies dropped 60mm, 215 tyre's and -2 deg of camber on the front, and no interior. As for the squeaking, i lathered all the bushes in copper slip before i fitted them, get extra copper slip, the satchet is not enough!

[vr6stormt 0]

Regarding bump steer. Have you got aftermarket suspension and is your car lowered (a lot?). The poly bushes shouldn’t have any effect on bump steer. It is severe lowering that causes it. Not sure about tram-lining' date=' but I doubt it. I have read on here and other forums that poly bushes a) can squeak can wear out quickly – not sure if that is true.

For explanation of why bump occurs, have a look here: http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=2549

And all you ever wanted to know about bump steer and a lot you didn't here: http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=13

[/quote']

im running mine on the oe bushes but where its slammed on coily`s they are shot already only replaced them about 5 months ago going to get arb`s and polys next see if thats any better?

[Knightrider 1]

Did you look at the links? If it is really slammed, looks great (maybe, your opinion) but it WILL NOT HANDLE PROPERLY. Read the stuff on Balance Motorsport about serious lowering plus the links I provided. Polys may or may not last longer. ARBs should make it handle a bit better , but if it is really (too) slammed - it is not the way to get the best handling, only looks, I promise! There is another thread where the guy was complaining about the car (slammed) handling like a pig. Raised it up, back to great handling! If you want to drive it, un-slam it. If you want to have it look 'cool' (that is entirely subjective IMO) then slam it.

[b19drg 0]

As I type my VR is having a set of Eibach ARBs (22/25) fitted (I don't like grovelling around under cars on driveways!) right now. Should get it back later this afternoon.

Suspension wise the car is completely standard. It has done 70' date='000 miles, had new VW OEM shocks, front at 48,000 and rears at 62,000.

Objective is to reduce the roll (obviously) so that it improves the turn in (try a classic mini – that’s instant turn in), reduce under steer and make it more nimble. Mine is shocking when you have to do left-right-lefts on roundabouts or twisty bits. Not too bad in long, fast sweepers though. I’ll let you know how much difference they make. I use mine as a daily driver. I don’t want it slammed and I don’t want it rock hard. Here’s hoping!

[/quote']

How are the ARB's working for you is t worth doing ? im lowered but not slamed to the ground as i wanted to keep the handling

[Knightrider 1]

Sorry been 'off forum' - driving around with a smile! I got mine cheap by pure chance and luck from Awesome, only £232. They have made a massive difference. In fact, if money wasn't an issue I'd go for the biggest rear one you can get which is I think a Neuspeed 28mm adjustable (and change the front to a larger spec, 25mm, as well, to keep some balance otherwise the back will swap with the front with very little encouragement).

It is not exactly flick flick on roundabouts, still a bit lazy to respond to the helm, but on long fast sweepers and tight lane type bends, it has transformed it. Still rolls a bit - subjective, but reduced roll on a standard set up by say 70%? You have to power on in corners to get the best. It kind of tightens up and sits down hard on the outer rear wheel and you kind of feel that wheel almost powering it round the corner as if it was rear wheel drive with a limited slip diff. It is a strange feeling, but if you go for it, it bights like hell. Lifting off in corner destabilises things a bit drastically - as in you are pissing round a tight corner under power and come across a dawdler - whooaagh!

All up, very good, I'm really impressed. Made a huge difference. My boy says it now feels almost as good as his Rado VR!

I also pumped my tyres (standard 205/50/15 Toyo Proxie T1-R) up to the insane pressure that VW recomend, 37 psi F and 35 psi rear, to make sure the side walls were not flexing. It feels like a really good 40mm drop suspension kit has been added.

And I've just bought a KONI SSK Sport kit so it will be interesting to see how much difference that makes in addition to the ARBS. Not many people do it that way round I think.

[b19drg 0]

brilliant thanks for the info , well credit card is in hand and my next stop is either awsome or venom for a set !

[Special K 81 0]

Well i was just about to start a thread on poly's then saw this, all very interesting guys. Basically i was going to ask for opinions on poly over oe and how hard a job taking off wishbones and removing bushes to poly bush that wishbone...driveway on a sat morning job????

[b19drg 0]

From what i understand , if you need to change the bushes it seems like its pollybush all the way !

[Special K 81 0]

How hard a job though you reckon???

[Knightrider 1]

Unless you have a 2 post ramp on your driveway, and a press handy, I reckon that it will be a mission! Which ones are you planning on changing?

[brynvr6 1]

I have since spoken to an ex powerflex dealer who recommended I use poly rear wishbone bushes and rear beam bushes and original front wishbone bushes (As the rear ones have the cutouts which cause toe/track change under cornering, accelerating and braking. but to keep the rest original rubber to retain ride comfort.

I have however gone for all poly wishbone bushes and rear beam bushes. Original anti roll bar bushes and new OEM drop links. And a 28mm adjustable rear anti roll bar. I will be fitting the bits over easter so we will see what its like :-).

[Knightrider 1]

Are you just fitting the 28mm rear ARB....or uprating the fronts as well? If just the back, I'd really like to know how it feels. Reading all the techy stuff about ARBs a bar that big on the back only should take her into oversteer mode and dial out ALL the understeer - have to watch it in the wet, but should make the turn in electric! I've just put on the Eibach 22/25 the other day. Massive improvement, but still doesn't have the turn-in I'd like. Keep us updated!!

[brynvr6 1]

I'm just upgrading the rear. In all fairness I did order a 25mm rear bar however it's on back order and won't be available for weeks so I opted for the 28mm. Yeah snap oversteer in the wet could be an issue. It is an adjustable bar however so I will be running it at it's softest setting to start with.

I read up a lot about anti roll bar upgrades. The Americans mostly use whiteline or shine racing rear bars with standard fronts. General consensus is that fitting a rear bar does the world of good then fitting an uprated front bar brings all the understeer right back. All you do is stiffen everything up, the front to rear relationship is still the same.

That said I will report back after everything is fitted and all set up. Then I will be able to give a more conclusive opinion.

[Knightrider 1]

Bryn, have you fitted the rear 28mm yet? Interested to know the effect.

The Eibach front and rear that I fitted has hugely reduced overall role, but I'm disappointed with the 'turn-in', hasn't really made it feel any sharper and it still feels under-steery. Maybe Eibach et al make sure they keep the understeer - or they'd get sued if people found the back snapping out and couldn't control it, probably as you say, only in the wet. I might put the standard one back on the front and take off the front Eibach, see what happens.

[brynvr6 1]

I have indeed mate. I havnt done many miles with it but I have started to play with the handling and tbh im impressed.

There is no understeer at all. You turn in and feed the power in and as you approach the limits of grip it begins to slide sideways, then if you keep it planted the back end starts to twitch and slide. Its really progressive and controllable though. Im very impressed with it.

I did a lot of research into anti roll bars and a lot of people recommend a rear one only. As soon as you add the front one you bring all the understeer back, all you have essentially done is stiffened the car up.

I would recommend a 25mm adjustable rear bar. I run my 28mm on its softest setting, I wouldnt want it to be any harsher as it might take away the progressiveness and be more 'snappy' However if you have a 25mm on its medium setting, at least you can stiffen it up further or make it softer to your personal preference.

[spadam 7]

How easy was it to fit rear beam bushes want to do them at same time as coiilovers. Could i put the 2 axle stands on the sills and remove rear beam. Then once rear iis fitted put axle stands on front beam and chnage coilovers etc.

[brynvr6 1]

They are easy to do if you change them for poly ones. The hardest part is refitting the beam when the new bushes are in.

And just a bit of advice, I wouldnt put axle stands on the sill mate.

[spadam 7]

good point where would you suggest to put axle stands at the rear to get the rear beam off then. couldnt quite see where you put yours in that picture.

[brynvr6 1]

There is a proper jacking point just infront of the rear beam mounts. If you put a bit of wood or thick card on the axle stand to protect the floor u can put the stands there mate

[spadam 7]

yea i no where you mean shall be doing this in the next couple of weeks when coilovers and tyres arrive