vr6 turbo manegment

[vr6tboy 0]

hi every one new to the club. i have a vr6 turbo that im still building so far ive done every thing and come to the stage of feuling .

ihave je pistons 8.3 comp wid head gasket

t3/t4 turbo

440cc injectors

standard rods

im stuck on what to do with the ecu to either remap it or a locall tuner recomends for me to use aem fic to help the feuling and ignition. but i have not seen any one use this so im a bit unsure.

im hopeing on 350 -400 whp any one got any ideas

thanks

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

Is your car OBD1 or 2?

[vr6tboy 0]

obd2

[FishWick 21]

OBD2 maps very well, but has limitations. For the power you're aiming for, it's fine.

Most people go with the C2 software and most are pleased with it.

If your local place recommend an AEM ECU (AEM are very good), then make sure the required skill and knowledge to install and map it are local to you aswell.

[vr6tboy 0]

its just so many people are saying so many diferent things get you cunfused. so really the best is a remap .?

[Phat VR6 3]

Kev uses stand alone ECU which is the best but every exsencive... Cheepest and easyest opition is C2 which everyone that uses then are very happy with.

So go with C2 software.. If moneys no option then get standalone but you will need rolling road and somone to remap it.

The C2 software is a remap of your ECU but not set up on your car, Its a map they sell for VR turbos so theres no need to send your car off to them

[MaidenVR6 26]

VR6TBOY.

You can choose from 4 diffrent setups for your OBD2 car with C2.

All the negative stuff people say about C2 setup, is 80% not based on experience.

In that matter, is better to not say anything!

Send your ECU to C2 for software upgrade, and tell them what 440cc injectors you have. The greentops Bosch 440cc are working very good for 100's of VRT's all around the world. I know you can get better one's "KEV" but, the Bosch works very well. No issue's.

Ive done this to three European VR6T's here in Norway, and they all run very strong. No issue's at all.

I run 440cc's with C2 software at 21 psi / 1.45 bar. No issues.

for C2 price's vs other options, and the C2 customer support.

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

This is gonna turn into the standard management vs standalone argument thread, I can see it coming.

Our 42lb OBD2 canned software will run on any correctly setup 12v VR6, and it will run perfect, idle, fueling, ignition, at any altitude at any natural ambeint temperature. Currently this has produced a maximum of 424hp to the wheels.

The are limitations to the standard ECU, that is correct, but there are limitations to what people term 'A Standalone ECU' too. To us a standard OBD2 ECU is a standalone ECU, We have control over everything that is in there. Idle control for example. C2 software also allows the use of all original fitment options too, On board diagnostics, and correct reading MPG on the dash for example.

People see things from different points of view, Standalone is absolutely an option IF you know what your doing. On the other hand so is the standard ECU if the people who program it know what they are doing,

[vr6tboy 0]

all i want is a set up thats not to complicated and wont need retuning all the time. but at the same time get the power that i wont . also how much would c2 charge me for a remap?

[MaidenVR6 26]

all i want is a set up thats not to complicated and wont need retuning all the time. but at the same time get the power that i wont . also how much would c2 charge me for a remap?

Sell your 440's... Buy the complete 420# C2 Setup. Boost easly 20 psi, and be a happy owner. Before you do anything, buy a AEM Wideband.... Or any wideband. This is to see how your engine is doing... Worth the money

Up the Irons

[vr6tboy 0]

whats the differnce between my 440cc inj and the ones in c2 s set up? also what do you guys think about the aem fic do you think it will work?

[FishWick 21]

This is gonna turn into the standard management vs standalone argument thread' date=' I can see it coming. [/quote']

That's very negative of you sir :-)

Bear in mind that being a supplier, you have a vested interest on here.

It's good to see suppliers on forums answering questions though, and offering advice. Many shy away from it as they can't be bothered and / or don't want to be backed into a corner about their products.

90% of users don't understand 'Stanalones' and no one on here supplies or sets them up, so it tends to be a one sided argument, sorry, debate!

It's only fair people are aware of both options and it doesn't have to turn into an argument either ;-)

First off, there is no best way to do it. You always get "what's the best?" type questions, and the only real answer is "What ever suits your needs and budget".

If you really wanted to, you could run a VRT on carbs and a distributor with points. It will work, but would it be the best way? If it suits the owner, then yes.

OE managment was designed from the outset to be well mannered.

Standalones, historically speaking, were / are for racing only, where idle quality and overrun smoke control are of no importance. But more of them now feature the same controls that make OE managment so smooth and tractable.

Standalones can also automatically compensate for various temperature and pressure differences etc, so OBD1/2 does not have the monopoly there. Some standalones can also run DC motor controlled throttles, aswell as stepper motors and idle valves, so again, nothing new or exclusive to C2 software. Further more, standalones also have adaptive learning and lambda target tables.....aswell as launch control, anti-lag, traction control, boost control via PWM, various aux inputs with seperate maps etc etc....all in one box. You can also run a huge variety of coils, injectors and they work with the existing factory sensors. Well, OBD1 and 2 cannot run the instant updating 1.8T air temp sensor, but standalones can :-) What use is the VR6 IAT when it takes 10 seconds to update and heat soaks in traffic?

Where standalones excel is boost. they are designed for it, whereas the OE management was not....and OE is only narrowband fuelling. Standies are wideband....and they can fun full closed loop all the way to the redline like the 1.8T.

So, as you can see, plenty of options. You don't even need a remap. You can just fit saab 360cc injectors and a 10K pot on the MAF signal wire and that do you 8-10psi of boost no problem. The timing won't be right, but the knock sensors will help you out to

All that's critical with any tuning is a good wideband meter.

I'm not trying to take customers away from C2, merely to point out there are other ways to do it ;-)

[vr6tboy 0]

thanks mate good bit of info. just trying to weigh the pros and cons because of ive been told so many different things. i assume your running standalone to? are you happy with it?

[FishWick 21]

You will get varying opinions in the tuning game mate, but what is right for one man, may not be right for you.

Yeah I use a standalone and I'm happy with it. The car is my daily transport and if I believed half of what was said about standalones when I was in the same position you are now, I wouldn't have bought one! It's perfectly drivable. Idles and starts (both hot and cold) as stock and is fantastic on boost.

Standalones can and do get a bad reputation because as C2 said, the ECU is only as good as the map that's put inside it.

So many standalone tuners do very basic maps, because they either can't be bothered or don't know how to do proper 3D mapping. These maps tend to have no idle control, inefficient batch fired injection (think K jet!) ,no over run shut off (black smoke when slow down) , no closed loop lambda control and run too rich on boost. They then earn a bad reputation, but the good tuners out there who know what they're doing can get a map to rival the best OE managment maps no problem.

The advantage of OBD2 and 1 is VW have done all the hard work in getting it to start, idle and run for you. It's just a case of modifying the existing maps to work with boost. Standalones operate on a clean sheet, but there are plenty of maps around to get you started these days.

For you though, I think the C2 option. If you feel there's areas for improvement, you can either feedback to C2, or investigate a standalone ;-)

[Silverback 0]

Wonder if someone can help me.. I've got a vr6-t but it's running rich and running on standard management. Not sure whether to get a piggy back ecu or a standalone.. I want to have it mapped properly and so far have been quoted 1400 by storm developments for an emerald ecu and setting up on the rolling road.. Just wondering if there's any cheaper options as this seems alot? Any advice would be appreciated

[UnitedMotorsport 55]

This is gonna turn into the standard management vs standalone argument thread' date=' I can see it coming. [/quote']

That's very negative of you sir :-)

Bear in mind that being a supplier, you have a vested interest on here.

It's good to see suppliers on forums answering questions though, and offering advice. Many shy away from it as they can't be bothered and / or don't want to be backed into a corner about their products.

90% of users don't understand 'Stanalones' and no one on here supplies or sets them up, so it tends to be a one sided argument, sorry, debate!

It's only fair people are aware of both options and it doesn't have to turn into an argument either ;-)

I'm not trying to take customers away from C2, merely to point out there are other ways to do it ;-)

Completely agreed that C2 has a vested interest here, But we are not PUSHING people into using it, We dont mind answering questions or offering advice.

We map standalone ECU's too, so I know entirely both sides of the debate! DTA, Emerald, MBE, Motec, Pectel, etc, I've done them all. If i was to choose one to run an engine i'd choose Pectel.

When you say "90% of people dont understand standalones," I would agree with you, but I'd also like to add that 99.9% of people dont have the 1st clue about Motronic ECU's.

To say that the OE(Motronic) ECU wasnt designed to be used with boost is a falacy. The Motronic as with all other ECU's is just a computer, it doesn't see boost, or RPM or what profile your camshaft is etc , it just sees references, and uses them to compute (with software that YOU provide it) what is going on. Motronic 3.8 as it is in the UK is used on the OBD2 VR6, and the 1.8T. It then jumps to ME7 which is the best Motronic release by far.

It is only fair people are made aware of every option to them, and as previosuly said, it is horses for courses. as it is with everything in life. People will choose to use what they understand.

[FishWick 21]

Good points, well made ;-)

Pectel is a bit on the expensive side for 99.9% of people's pockets though, as is MoTeC. Although I do wonder what percentage of these ECUs is just window dressing. All the cheaper ECUs have the same core functions to run an engine.

Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding, so I'm going to have to try the C2 code when I get back from my holiday and see how it compares to my standalone maps :-)