Toph 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Currently looking at VR6 (approx 90k on the clock) and the owner has informed me of a flat spot / hesitation at around 3000-4000 rpm. He's almost certain it is going to be either the plugs or leads to remedy this (probably from short journeys as he hardly uses the car).Anyone had similar experiences/problems? Any help/advice would be much appreciated! Cheers,Toph Link to post Share on other sites
matth76 1 Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Simple Toph - get the owner to fix the problem then say you will come back and look at it. That way if he says it is relatively cheap to fix he won't mind fixing it! It should be fit for use if he's selling it. There are plenty of other VR's out there so don't be persuaded to go for this one. Leads and plugs would be my first port of call but it could also be the coilpack which can be expensive or even worse it could be the timing slightly out which is much more expensive. Do you know if the chains have been done on it? Quite often when the chains are done garages can put the chains/cams back in slightly wrong (even by a mm) and it will make a big flat spot sometimes as well as potentially causing pinking (I know because my car suffered from this). Best bet is to get owner to fix it to be safe. It should have absolutely smooth acceleration all through the gears from 2k revs all the way to redline. First, Second and third gear should really throw your head back. Another test is to hold it in 3rd gear at 3000revs, then floor it - it should be like a mini explosion and really accelerate hard. Link to post Share on other sites
MJ Vr6 79 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Simple Toph - get the owner to fix the problem then say you will come back and look at it. That way if he says it is relatively cheap to fix he won't mind fixing it! It should be fit for use if he's selling it. There are plenty of other VR's out there so don't be persuaded to go for this one. Leads and plugs would be my first port of call but it could also be the coilpack which can be expensive or even worse it could be the timing slightly out which is much more expensive. Do you know if the chains have been done on it? Quite often when the chains are done garages can put the chains/cams back in slightly wrong (even by a mm) and it will make a big flat spot sometimes as well as potentially causing pinking (I know because my car suffered from this). Best bet is to get owner to fix it to be safe. It should have absolutely smooth acceleration all through the gears from 2k revs all the way to redline. First' date=' Second and third gear should really throw your head back. Another test is to hold it in 3rd gear at 3000revs, then floor it - it should be like a mini explosion and really accelerate hard.[/quote'] MattH, was just reading your reply, in your last sentence you said hold 3rd gear @ 3000revs then floor it, My VR does that little explosion too..That aint a bad thing right? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Simple Toph - get the owner to fix the problem then say you will come back and look at it. That way if he says it is relatively cheap to fix he won't mind fixing it! It should be fit for use if he's selling it. There are plenty of other VR's out there so don't be persuaded to go for this one. Leads and plugs would be my first port of call but it could also be the coilpack which can be expensive or even worse it could be the timing slightly out which is much more expensive. Do you know if the chains have been done on it? Quite often when the chains are done garages can put the chains/cams back in slightly wrong (even by a mm) and it will make a big flat spot sometimes as well as potentially causing pinking (I know because my car suffered from this). Best bet is to get owner to fix it to be safe. It should have absolutely smooth acceleration all through the gears from 2k revs all the way to redline. First' date=' Second and third gear should really throw your head back. Another test is to hold it in 3rd gear at 3000revs, then floor it - it should be like a mini explosion and really accelerate hard.[/quote'] Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Matt you above advice is completely wrong how can you get the timing out by a millimeter - you have definaltly no done this job before or otherwise you would know that - i am very concerned about your advice as you don't really know what you are talking about to be frank! Do you work at the phirm? i will never take my car there as you have just put me right off ! Link to post Share on other sites
Toph 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Thanks for the advice Matt. @ simplyVR6 - What's your advice then?? Link to post Share on other sites
cadguy77 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Matt you above advice is completely wrong how can you get the timing out by a millimeter - you have definaltly no done this job before or otherwise you would know that - i am very concerned about your advice as you don't really know what you are talking about to be frank! Do you work at the phirm? i will never take my car there as you have just put me right off !Didn't see matt mention the phirm.I use the phirm all the time, y did they get mentioned? Link to post Share on other sites
Toph 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Yeah there seems to be more digs than help here! Anything I've heard about the Phirm has been very good. Was even thinking of trying to swing by them on Sat if all goes well and I buy this motor, but not sure if they could squeeze me in on such short notice. Shame I couldn't stay over longer! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Read his other posts does he work at the phirm? Link to post Share on other sites
Toph 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 So..... has anyone else got anything to say here or is it just turning into an excuse for some bitchin?? Link to post Share on other sites
thegoth 5 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Read his other posts does he work at the phirm?Looking through the phirms web site the team page doesn't list a Matt. He must just be a satisfied customer. Link to post Share on other sites
thegoth 5 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 So..... has anyone else got anything to say here or is it just turning into an excuse for some bitchin??Mine had the same flat spot, especially noticable once I'd put a straight through exhaust on. Did seem to go once I'd had my chains / tensioners replaced at 160K miles. So my 2p worth is that Matt's diagnosis is valid.Vr6 boy might be right that the chains stretch, up to a point, almost immediatly in which case the engine is probably designed for it, but if they stretch too far, surely the top sprocket can become slightly out of sync with the drive cog, throwhing the timing out a smidge. With my new chains mine roars less as well, which I certainly attribute to the timing being better.TG - No degree in mechanical engineering but I did have plenty of technical lego as a kid. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I think what is required is a diagram from vw. mm of timing is just a joke considering you are using chains. what are you guys on how can a chain stretch to much ? tensile loading on chains is there for a reason! i think you really need to do some serious reading there is alot of bullshit floating around matts knowledge. Does he work at the phirm?is he in the office there or a tech guy ? Link to post Share on other sites
cadguy77 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 y do you keep going on about Matt working for the phirm.No he doesn't, and he like you, is entitled to his opinionAs - printed my degree from the interweb Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 why advise on stuff that you don't fully understand??? Link to post Share on other sites
thegoth 5 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 why advise on stuff that you don't fully understand???Experiance. Matt had a flat spot. He had his chains done, it went. My flat spot vansihed after the same work.And besides the chain link ( pun absolutly intended ) Matt's advice was to get the seller to fix the problem, as he was sure there was a cheap and easy fix, before buying the car so as not to be stung. Which to me sounds like good general advice no matter what car you are considering buying. I've seen far to many ebay listing which say the likes of 'Won't start, probably just a bulb" to know that sellers will say anything.TGNo connection with the phirm, stealth, NS racing or any other garage you might name. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 don't tell me your timing was a mm out to - what a joke do some reading and get back to me. you need to get some factual information together. Link to post Share on other sites
Toph 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Cheers guys for the help which has come amongst the dispute. Link to post Share on other sites
thegoth 5 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Cheers guys for the help which has come amongst the dispute.No probs mate. Hope it aint put you off the forum. It's never normally like this around here. Somebody must just be having a bad day ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest simplyvr6 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 no probs toph some people just get excited and make things up but i think you get the jist of things Link to post Share on other sites
matth76 1 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Nice to have new members add their two pence worth....Simplyvr6 not sure why you even mentioned the Phirm. No one else in this thread had until you did. I've simply had a lot of issues with my cam timing and chains in the past and believe me I have spoken at great length to more than one specialist and from my experience I can only offer "possible" causes to other members on here who have similar "symptoms" to me (that is what this forum is for - we do not offer expert advice - for proper advice we speak to the experts) but it is useful to learn new things and offer help to other members where possible, which is all I have simply tried to do here. As goth said above I had a similar issue, my problem was resolved (and like most members on here I like to chat to the mechanics as they are opening everything up and find out the causes and cures to my own car's previous issues) - I have simply passed on my same experience here. Doesn't mean it will solve someone else's problem (or that I work for a garage lol). Yes timing can be out by a very small amount (mm's) and induce flat spots.I am a satisfied customer at the Phirm. In fact I have met a few members from here down there including Aswad (cadguy) and a few others. They are first rate. No I don't work for them lol... wish I had the talent to though! The Phirm do all Performance VW magazine's own cars. I also use Stealth Racing, equally as good, and experts when it comes to ecu/rolling road tuning. Stealth Racing and The Phirm are two of the best in the UK. Most members on here, including me, will always recommend anyone with a VR to go to either if you can. Link to post Share on other sites
Toph 0 Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 No worries guys, know how it goes, lol!@ King VR6 - It hasn't put me off the forum. Even if this particular car doesn't work I'll still be out to get a VR6 of some sort. So will be about asking questions all the time, lol! Link to post Share on other sites
Bee 0 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think the reason SimplyVR6 had a moan is Matth76 said "has the chains just been done and someone might have put it back together wrong and the timing might be out by a couple of mm " but with chains the least it can be out is one link which is way more than a couple of mm and it would proberly run like a bag of shit not just a flat spot.But SimplyVR6 should have just pointed that out instead of having a dig at Matth76That said Matt said his had a flat spot and getting the chains done fixed it which could be right because old chains could streched a small bit knocking the timing out a tad, but he said new ones might be set up wrong and out a couple of mm which is wrong.I hope i'm right as i'm no expert Bee... Link to post Share on other sites
Toph 0 Posted April 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 Cheers mate! The sale hasn't been totally sealed yet but if it continues to go well and I'm successful, the car will be booked in to get a once over to make sure everything is sorted.Toph Link to post Share on other sites
Bee 0 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Share Posted April 18, 2007 You should be able to tell if the chains are bad by the noise of the engine, you can hear them rattling if you hold the rpm up and listen under the bonnet, theres a recording of the noise it makes about here somewhere.With 90k on the clock if it's had regular oil changes they should be ok Bee... Link to post Share on other sites
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