cam chains and tensioners

[wkd928 0]

apologies for posting if this information is elsewhere but i didnt see it after searching and i cant access the premium membership function at the moment.. ive just bought a 92 vr6 with 130k and no history, and it seems there are mixed opinions on what should be done to the chains/tensioners - some say simply replace the tensioners and others say replace the chains as well. at the moment the car is running well with no obvious mechanical issues and no obvious chain noise.

i have a few questions:

is replacing the chains an engine out job, which end of the engine are they? presumably if this is being done the guides are also replaced, do people also replace the sprockets ie. crank, cam and balance shaft?

is it acceptable practice to simply replcae the tensioners? i am led to believe that the chains themselves may last for a long time if kept appropriately tensioned.

is there any way to check the chain guides or condition of the chain without stripping the engine?

thanks in advance for all advice!

nick.

[rodney 17]

Generaly chains and tensioners are changed at 100k. They are on the left side (drivers) of engine hidden away behind a cover. Not too big a job really, and no you don't need to change everything! Check with the guys on here for advice on what else is a good idea whilst you're there.

As for what to look for its actually what to listen for. Set 2000rpm and listen for the rattle. If you can use a screwdricer and hold to your ear and chain cover. You can hear them. There is a link on Premium section to help and a sound bite also.

Good luck

[Chrisdut 0]

if you've gone to the trouble of completely stripping down the engine to repalce the tensioners then you really should change the chains, the chains do stretch over time and when they fail it aint the tensioner or rails fault but the chain snapping. the rattle tho comes from worn and broken rails

hope this helps a little

[wkd928 0]

i spoke to the guys at storm developments this morning who were really informative about whats involved and what needs doing, also learned that the headgasket is meant to be changed at 100k as well.. they also said that the oil pumps wear with age which surprised me.

it actualy seems a nice car apart from some neglect and rough bodywork and im thinking that it might be worth the trouble of pulling the engine and sorting it properly, it would seem pulling the head is recommended as well. the only trouble is where to stop.. reco the head with some porting, re-grind the cams with a smaller base circle.. port the intake, add headers?? mmmm... my cheap runabout is threatening to cost more than the porsche it is replacing - and i donk know what my girlfriend will say about that!

someone has described the sound of the chains as like a noisy sewing machine and i think thats a good description - right around the 2k rpm mark as well. i also hear a slight whistling..

[mk3anni 0]

Here we go again.

Head Gaskets DO NOT need to be replaced at 100k

Pulling the head off is not needed.

Oil pumps wear, of course, but mine has done 100k and mine is still showing good pressure, I have an oil pressure gauge to keep an eye on it.

Try speaking to someone other than storm, I use the phirm as do many others on here.

Call them

01428608480

[matth76 1]

Welcome to the site wkd. I use the phirm too mate. They are near Farnham in the south, Surrey. Definitely worth the trip. They do all the cars for VW Performance Magazine and highly recommended on here. A lot of members on here use them. Extremely friendly and very experienced and charge half that of a main dealer. Stealth are very good too if you are in the midlands.

You don't need to take the head off to do the chains. The cam cover needs to come off though and more importantly the gearbox needs to come out to do both the top and bottom chains. Its impossible to do either without the gearbox coming out (even if the head was off the gearbox still needs to come out to do the chains). It is therefore a very good time to replace the clutch too at this time since the box is out.

It is not acceptable to just replace the tensioners.. although rare, chains can snap meaning end of engine there and then.

Can you hear chain rattle? Its quite hard to tell behind all the normal tappet noise. Its a very faint background raspy noise when you rev the engine. Only get it done when you have the symptoms. Some vr's can go on to over 200k miles and not get any chain rattle. Whereas some can get rattle below 100k miles. As long as you let the car fully warm up before going over 3k revs and regularly service the car every 10k miles the vr should last you a long time.. Nice choice in car mate... but what made you choose it over a Porsche!!? Good luck with your chains.

[adam_christie 0]

How much did it cost you to get your chains sorted matth76? Need to get mine sorted, plus my clutch which is juddering.....

[matth76 1]

Hi mate. You have PM.

[wkd928 0]

one of my problems is that the whole cost of the car was less than what i would pay for the chains.. but that aside it seems that what ive been hearing is mainly tappet/lifter noise. thanks to everyone who chimed in with info, nice to find a friendly place for advice.

[GVK 1]

I looked at it this way, the donor engine for my mk2 VR6 had done 160k, the engine was out of the car so we did the chains/tensioners and guides and fitted the later thinner head gasket to raise the compression slightly.

These parts DO wear out/fail on high mileage VRs, so we did it sooner rather than later.

Pleased we did as the upper chain guide was worn through to rivets and one of the mounting points had cracked off the guide!

[mk3anni 0]

True Gary, the chains and tensioners do need doing but the head gasket does not.

[VR6Rich 3]

They are on the left side (drivers) of engine hidden away behind a cover.

Just to point out that the chains are on the RIGHT hand side (passenger), the side with the gearbox!

[mk3anni 0]

Or the left from inside the car.

[Guest simplyvr6]

My headgasket was leaking at 89k and i saw the state of it so i would think that they all need doing by 100k please don't listen to mk3anni he has no clue - get your gasket done a tell tale sign is if you have small pink marks around your water filler cap .

Mk3 anni please get your facts right before you offer poor advice.

[Guest simplyvr6]

Welcome to the site wkd. I use the phirm too mate. They are near Farnham in the south' date=' Surrey. Definitely worth the trip. They do all the cars for VW Performance Magazine and highly recommended on here. A lot of members on here use them. Extremely friendly and very experienced and charge half that of a main dealer. Stealth are very good too if you are in the midlands.

You don't need to take the head off to do the chains. The cam cover needs to come off though and more importantly the gearbox needs to come out to do both the top and bottom chains. Its impossible to do either without the gearbox coming out (even if the head was off the gearbox still needs to come out to do the chains). It is therefore a very good time to replace the clutch too at this time since the box is out.

It is not acceptable to just replace the tensioners.. although rare, chains can snap meaning end of engine there and then.

Can you hear chain rattle? Its quite hard to tell behind all the normal tappet noise. Its a very faint background raspy noise when you rev the engine. Only get it done when you have the symptoms. Some vr's can go on to over 200k miles and not get any chain rattle. Whereas some can get rattle below 100k miles. As long as you let the car fully warm up before going over 3k revs and regularly service the car every 10k miles the vr should last you a long time.. Nice choice in car mate... but what made you choose it over a Porsche!!? Good luck with your chains.

[/quote']

[Guest simplyvr6]

This information above about the chains is bullshit i am a doctor of engineering and have never read so much crap - i have been working with the vw cup cars for 14 years now and these guys with their wild ideas don't have a clue.

Please do not follow this chain information i was called in 15 years ago to examine these engines in fine detail - by cup challenge race guys .

For example all chains stretch within 5 miles of use - that is their job (tesile loading) matt are you an engineer ??? how do you come up with these chain ideas???

get your facts right - do you work at the phirm ??

you must do as are always bumping them?

[VR6Rich 3]

My headgasket was leaking at 89k and i saw the state of it so i would think that they all need doing by 100k please don't listen to mk3anni he has no clue - get your gasket done a tell tale sign is if you have small pink marks around your water filler cap .

Mk3 anni please get your facts right before you offer poor advice.

Im currently on 161k and have no problems with my head gasket. No contamination in the oil (milky residue on the oil cap). What do you mean by pink marks around the water filler cap? Surely thats just dried up coolant that may have leaked through the overflow outlet?

I wouldnt say mk3anni is posting poor advice, hes just suggesting that you dont definitely need to get the head gasket done, as that would just add more cost to an already costly job (I know as ive just had my chains done!).

BTW, my car is worked on by guys that work on VW cup cars (specifically VR6's and MK5 GTI's).

[Guest simplyvr6]

However , how do you know that there is not a huge amount of corrosion on your cylinder head and your valve guides arn't worn , and the valves themselves arn't strecthed?

a vr6 can leak very very small amounts of water into piston chambers and the result of this is that you get rapid ring wear because the bores harden ....

i thought you would know all this -

i thought this forum was about helping people preserve their vr6's not run them into the ground !!!!

The gasket needs doing for more than one reason , please get your facts right.