96VR6NZ 2 Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 I have a 96 VR6 OBD2. I want to upgrade the ECU for improved performance. What are my options? I have a spare ECU to play with. Would appreciate any advice from those who have done this... cheers Link to post Share on other sites
ssaunders 199 Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 You need to remove the chip and rewrite the code, or possibly add a piggy back chip. That's all folks. You can't program them on the fly. More power is money. You may get a few HP with a piggy back chip but it needs extra stuff like cams etc. To make it go well. good lick s Link to post Share on other sites
96VR6NZ 2 Posted May 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 Yes that's what I was expecting. I want to do the ECU next. Have already done the induction and exhaust with good gains in performance. Who does the ECU mods these days? Can you recommend anyone? UK or overseas. Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 For what its worth I'm getting a standalone ECU installed next month, as the chip install wasn't the best and the still isn't running as it should. Not much help I know, but that's the route I'm going.... Link to post Share on other sites
96VR6NZ 2 Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Thanks. There's obviously more to it than I thought...... Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 3 hours ago, 96VR6NZ said: Thanks. There's obviously more to it than I thought...... Lol, that's an understatement if ever there was one. If you want to know what's in your ecu then download the winols demo and put this file into it and knock yourself out in Google translate changing it from German to English; https://app.box.com/s/ez5rjyhb0twoz95egj8vi3wcjdnewfo9 VR6Pete and VR6 Supercharged 2 Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Indeed there is, as ssaunders said "More power = more monies. All dependant on how for you want to take it, it can cost silly monies without a doubt.... Good luck in getting where you want to be which ever route you decide... Link to post Share on other sites
ssaunders 199 Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) On 29 May 2016 at 8:40 AM, 96VR6NZ said: Yes that's what I was expecting. I want to do the ECU next. Have already done the induction and exhaust with good gains in performance. Who does the ECU mods these days? Can you recommend anyone? UK or overseas. Hi, Vince at stealth racing does most on here, not sure what he charges now 350-400? If your going that route get all the mods you want done then get it mapped otherwise another mod = another visit = more money! VRsuper did you go piggy back or map and tune? I would be surprised if you had it chipped at somewhere like stealth they would have let it go not working right? im running standalone myself (emerald) and I like being able to fiddle and multiple maps but a good odb2 tuner should be able to do what's needed with a standard ecu, standalone is also cheaper to remap as its done by the hour (90 quid and safely running more boost locally, or 2 1/2 hour trip to stealth) where as more boost or setup change would need at least 1/2 a day on dyno and reprogramming for an odb2 plus dependant on where you are in the country travel costs. i spent upwards of 5k on my old VR and at best it ran 220hp and 205tq, check the boards on the latest RR day a Fabia diesel ran 230+ torque and quoting a sig here torque is what gets you through walls, while hp gets you to it. if you love the car and the sound it makes spend the money, if you love speed get a different car it will be cheaper peace out. steve Edited June 1, 2016 by ssaunders VR6Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi there Steve, already into the car for thousands and thousands now so Noooo going back.. As for my VR, she's OBD1. Bought a VF Engineering supercharger (chip supplied) kit through Regal Autosport and then had a place near to me (Manchester) do the install. Long story short there's a fault with the supplied chip? Regal don't seem to be interested? Spoken to a few firms now and they all say the same thing, standard ECU cannot run at 8psi as it factory set at 0psi. Can't really use the VR now at the moment for fear of it cutting out whilst driving (only now and again mind) but the revs can be up and sometimes which doesn't make for a nice drive so after spending hours with Google I've decided to go standalone so its sorted once and for all. Err, fingers crossed.... Mark. VR6Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi there Steve, already into the car for thousands and thousands now so Noooo going back.. As for my VR, she's OBD1. Bought a VF Engineering supercharger (chip supplied) kit through Regal Autosport and then had a place near to me (Manchester) do the install. Long story short there's a fault with the supplied chip? Regal don't seem to be interested? Spoken to a few firms now and they all say the same thing, standard ECU cannot run at 8psi as it factory set at 0psi. Can't really use the VR now at the moment for fear of it cutting out whilst driving (only now and again mind) but the revs can be up and sometimes which doesn't make for a nice drive so after spending hours with Google I've decided to go standalone so its sorted once and for all. Err, fingers crossed.... Mark. Just installed a supercharger on mine 10 psi pulley (I think, could be 12), 380cc injectors. Booked in at stealth for remap as have a generic stealth racing map to keep me going until I'm booked in, expecting 290 - 300 bhp. (Sent Vince my ECU and sent me it back with chip / map). What power output are you hoping for? Not many tuners touch obd1 these days, luckily I upgraded my Corrado to obd2 a while back and should be more than enough for what I need. VR6 Supercharged 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ssaunders 199 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 10 hours ago, VR6Pete said: Just installed a supercharger on mine 10 psi pulley (I think, could be 12), 380cc injectors. Booked in at stealth for remap as have a generic stealth racing map to keep me going until I'm booked in, expecting 290 - 300 bhp. (Sent Vince my ECU and sent me it back with chip / map). What power output are you hoping for? Not many tuners touch obd1 these days, luckily I upgraded my Corrado to obd2 a while back and should be more than enough for what I need. Pete, does Vince not do ODB1's? VR6Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I was hoping for 280 bhp as thats what said straight out of the box... They unsoldered the old chip ready for socket and new chip, damaged my ECU in the process, they got a replacement and installed it, VR not happy nor running as should. Replaced Lambda, Maf and various other bits, but still no joy. Me not happy camper at all, been on going now over 2 months.. Hence final dessision to bite the bullet and go standalone.. Link to post Share on other sites
VR6Pete 1,455 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 5 hours ago, ssaunders said: Pete, does Vince not do ODB1's? Vince does still map OBD1's, one of a few tuners who do.... Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 2 hours ago, VR6Pete said: Vince does still map OBD1's, one of a few tuners who do.... Oh bum. Does that mean I've possible spent more on an ECU than I needed too You live and learn the hard (and expensive) way sometimes. I suppose the only saving grace is when I've saved up my pennies again for some cams and head work done it'll be a doddle to map it I suppose...... Link to post Share on other sites
ssaunders 199 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, VR6 Supercharged said: Oh bum. Does that mean I've possible spent more on an ECU than I needed too You live and learn the hard (and expensive) way sometimes. I suppose the only saving grace is when I've saved up my pennies again for some cams and head work done it'll be a doddle to map it I suppose...... So have you bought the standalone? Which did you buy? Been there and done more money than needed! If I was you I would keep the original ecu as standard, get one to 'chip' and when you come to sell the charger sell it with the chipped ecu so you can put the car back to standard. That's the great thing about S/C they are bolt on in half a day. Unless your running big boost. A shrick mani allegedly pushes 6 psi into manifold upto 4k and that's on a standard ecu! Check bennyk's build. You will get the best advice here as we have all been there or tried to do it! good luck steve Edited June 3, 2016 by ssaunders Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 hour ago, ssaunders said: So have you bought the standalone? Which did you buy? Been there and done more money than needed! If I was you I would keep the original ecu as standard, get one to 'chip' and when you come to sell the charger sell it with the chipped ecu so you can put the car back to standard. That's the great thing about S/C they are bolt on in half a day. Unless your running big boost. A shrick mani allegedly pushes 6 psi into manifold upto 4k and that's on a standard ecu! Check bennyk's build. You will get the best advice here as we have all been there or tried to do it! good luck steve Hi Steve, already put a dip down on the ECU, so no going back now for sure. As for make, its a Link. As for selling charger? Not going to happen, nor is selling the VR, spent way too much on her now over the last two and a half years already, so def a keeper. Love everything about the car, looks, sound etc (much to the wife's dismay) Thanks for the advice/input though much appreciated without a doubt. All I'll say is I used to ride fast road bikes years back, but no longer do for family commitments etc, so needed something that would eventually one day be a little bit like the old biking days for speed and sound. Obviously all done on closed private roads officer.. Link to post Share on other sites
ssaunders 199 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I sold my VR for 900 quid, that was after cams, chains, exhaust, leather interior, 3.68 FD and diesel 5th plus loads more, counting back best part of 5k over 6-7 years. The thing about S/C is you can run 10 psi with no mods and if/when you want to sell you get the S/C money back and standard VR cost. imho it's the best bang for buck. If you want to embarrass M3 and scooby mugs then it's turbo only way to go, but it's not easy to return to standard for the long term option. I can speak from experience that you will never recoup the money you spend! You can only try and claw some back when you sell. i took the quick option and bought an ex mag featured Corrado, built for an ex donor card holder (biker) running 490bhp, when I got it it was detuned to 310 (Rolling roaded on the 310 map it was 260!) I told the tuner I wasn't happy running more than 350 with the syncro drivetrain so he did me a 3 way switchable map, 260-280 and 340. I had it 3 months and destroyed the 6 speed box fitted (quaife gear set £3k to buy!) I am now going haldex (next year) to run rude power I'm looking for 450,550 and 650 on the maps this means changing to haldex 02m box, prop and rear diff and obviously more money! If you look at the previous RR days a standard VR is out pulled by a 1.6 turbo fiesta ST, WTF! An SC will make it competitive but not a giant killer! sell the 2.8 lump drop an r32 in and charge that! Or R36! Otherwise keep it standard, accept that 18 yr old fiesta drivers on their mums insurance will slaughter you in the traffic light olympics and just enjoy the sound and a quiet missus. VR6 Supercharged 1 Link to post Share on other sites
VR6 Supercharged 104 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I fully appreciate everything you say completely, gone way past the point of selling it ever as already got 11k in the car upto now, and thats before the minor MK3 Golf body work issues get sorted.. So she's going to be with me until I die.. Oooh, an so is the misses.. Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 People need to understand the sheer depth of "professional mappers" they speak to - many use a re-seller file from either their software manufacturer or their suppliers and these bigger companies or dyno operators often don't have the time to specialize in one particular ecu unless you pay for it - even I would pass one of the older Motronic 12V ecu's over to Vince if I didn't have weeks or months to reverse engineer one myself or someone didn't want to pay for a complete custom job on their stock ecu, simply because he has done that many so I know has various boost files ready etc. Also, if, for example the OP - you are in another country, you should also see if he can patch in the boost controls or something and have a local dyno operator tune it once he's done it - not sure if he hides/IP rights his tunes though - would have to ask Vince and again, depends on how he mods the ecu's. In some respects, budding DIYers can probably already do that with the file I posted up and a bit of winols/tuneropro playing against your stock file and making notes of what needs to be coded roughly where. In fact, I can provide you with that actual file in a readable format for a small fee but it will need to be looked at thoroughly! However some mappers are already using it it seems! "You can't boost the stock ecu!" - of course you can. Although these are V6 4motions, there are two reads of a BDE - bottom is stock, top is me patching in load axis code for when it goes past the factory 100% limit, about 1.2bar here, but there's obviously a lot more to it than that. Middle one however, is a pro tune, 500+euro's worth someone paid for, and as you can see, not only has the factory hard cap on the load axis been retained, which'll obviously cause problems under boost, it's also maxxed across the rev range unlike stock. The amount of money people I have talked to have spent on these things...... well it's no wonder some of you go standalone! What you are looking at - bottom - stock BDE - top, same but you can see load axis changes I coded in (red box), don't have to do as many, can do the top two or three (blue box) for example - need to check the math and things like even the traction control at lower loads for example - middle is a "pro" ahem, map on single VVT V6 4motion - factory load still on and maxxed out, looks like stock torque values too, also looks like it is a quick cobbled together file (most tuners, to define a file will use things like a DAMOS or A2L file and they are usually pants or need a fair bit of modding unless you can get a good one exactly for your revision). Proper reverse engineering can take days, weeks or months even though and so costs a lot done properly! So - make sure you learn the differences on how something is "tuned" or what a mapper does as it can vary massively! DrRich and VR6 Supercharged 2 Link to post Share on other sites
96VR6NZ 2 Posted August 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) Tunetechnic in Auckland did an awesome job. I sent them a spare ECU and they tuned it to our set up, the exhaust and air intake etc. They estimate an extra 15kw and 25Nm. It goes well, the torque is there all the time and peak power gives a real kick at the top end. The auto box is in its element, its smoother and more predictable. It has transformed the car. I also reckon it's the best looking VR6 in NZ! Edited August 18, 2016 by 96VR6NZ RBPE 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RBPE 198 Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 On 18/08/2016 at 7:47 AM, 96VR6NZ said: Tunetechnic in Auckland did an awesome job. I sent them a spare ECU and they tuned it to our set up, the exhaust and air intake etc. They estimate an extra 15kw and 25Nm. It goes well, the torque is there all the time and peak power gives a real kick at the top end. The auto box is in its element, its smoother and more predictable. It has transformed the car. I also reckon it's the best looking VR6 in NZ! Sounds good, if any of you are interested in learning though there are quite a few free ways to go about it nowadays, main problems tend to be the actual flashing and logging, either due to "chipping" older ones or the more modern ones processors being a bit more fiddly with the developed free software. Tends to be tedious compared with the 1.8T/S4 cars it was developed for. Best bet for 12V owners wanting to learn would be getting Tunerpro and using their VR6 .xdf's and using it with Winols demo and HxD editing software. Ecuconnections has a lot of info on the older Motonic stuff too, few VR6 threads in there and tells you how to do manual checksums etc with HxD. They both cover OBD1 and 2 I think. Link to post Share on other sites
96VR6NZ 2 Posted August 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Thanks, I have an electronics background and trade so could so I can see the DIY potential. But I am glad I left it to the professional crew at Tunetechnics, they have a passion for this stuff and know what an engine needs, it transformed a motor that has been ticking over for 20 years blissfully unaware of its true ability. The engine growls with an attitude, it knows that we have been restricting it unnecessarily, its got something to prove now and a pleasure to drive. Link to post Share on other sites
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